fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1907 ]

[ SECRET POST #1907 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1907 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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07.

[Disney's Gargoyles]

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08.

[X-Men: First Class]

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09.

[keanu reeves]

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10.

[keanu reeves]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

11. [SPOILERS for Death Note]

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12. [SPOILERS for Kuragehime]

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13. [SPOILERS for The Walking Dead]

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14. [SPOILERS for Supernatural]

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15. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]

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16. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]

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17. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

18. [TRIGGER WARNING for sexual abuse]

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19. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]

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20. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #272.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - hit/ship/spiration ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

By what definition?

Generally in rape the penis goes in an orifice in a sexual manner until orgasm is achieved.

You seem to have missed the point. Allow me to repeat it for you:

rape =/= sex

There you go.

You seem to have missed my point, so try again. :)

No, I saw it. Right on top of your head.

Either provide a reason or move on. I'm bored with talking to you.

Bye bye you silly little special snowflake you!

Pot? Kettle.

Nope, I gave a reason. Still waiting for yours! :D

nayrt

You're acting like an ass. Knock it off.

> implying phallic penetration is THE criterion for a loss of "virginity"

oic

Stating that phallic penetration is a definition of sex (not the only one), and having sex is the criterion for a loss of virginity.

For a lot of people having CONSENSUAL sex is the criterion for a loss of virginity.

Edited 2012-03-24 03:02 (UTC)

OH! Here it's consensual sex = loss of virginity, not two lies down you're talking about how sex can only be consensual.

Make up your damn mind.

I'm being redundant, that doesn't mean I'm contradicting my self.

Backpedal harder.

(no subject)

mika-kun.livejournal.com - 2012-03-24 06:14 (UTC) - Expand

What? No reply? Or was it just fun to try to put words in my mouth that clearly weren't there in the first place?

Rape (in many places) is actually the forcible (via physical or mental coercion) insertion of a foreign object into the body without consent. Neither a penis nor an orgasm are required.

Many people consider the word "sex" to imply/require consent and that if consent was not present then it wasn't "sex" it was rape. While there may be physical similarities to the mechanics of both acts, I think we'll agree that they are in fact very different.

Many people define the loss of virginity as the fist time someone has CONSENSUAL sex (since you seem to have trouble understand that people don't consider rape to be sex).

Thus, if a virgin is raped, she is still a virgin because you don't stop being a virgin until you CHOOSE to have sex.

New anon here

I would say that the consensual first time is the time that actually matters to anyone keeping score (dunno who that would be...). However, I would also say that the hypothetical rape survivor would still not be a virgin at that point. The physical mechanisms matter when having sex, unless you'd also want to argue that having cyber-sex takes away a person's virginity as well.

Virginity is really a pretty personal thing. Determining when someone stops being a virgin is difficult because so many people have different opinions. Does oral sex count? Do hand jobs? What about masturbating while cuddling? What if my girlfriend/boyfriend uses a toy on me, but I don't touch them? Ect.

Someone might not identify as a virgin, but may not have had penis in vagina sex. If having someone put a penis in your vagina is not necessary for the loss of your virginity, I don't see why it should be automatically sufficient for the loss of virginity either.

(Upthread anon)

If having someone put a penis in your vagina is not necessary for the loss of your virginity, I don't see why it should be automatically sufficient for the loss of virginity either.

Oh logic fail. So much logic fail.

Bleeding out is not necessary for death to occur, therefore I don't see why bleeding out should be automatically sufficient for the loss of life. See how stupid that sounds?

Death doesn't have a variable definition. Virginity does.

Okay, so brain dead does count? What about people who are technically dead during a heart attack? It ain't as black and white as you think.

Or if you're not happy with that...

If getting a divorce is not necessary for the end of a marriage, I don't see why it should be automatically sufficient for the end of a marriage either.

If emotional blackmail is not necessary for spousal abuse, I don't see why it should be automatically sufficient for spousal abuse either.

If aggressive trolling is not necessary for getting a forum ban, I don't see why it should be automatically sufficient for a forum ban either.

You want me to keep going or have I made you look stupid enough?

(no subject)

mika-kun.livejournal.com - 2012-03-24 06:33 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2012-03-24 06:42 (UTC) - Expand

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mika-kun.livejournal.com - 2012-03-24 06:51 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2012-03-24 07:11 (UTC) - Expand

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mika-kun.livejournal.com - 2012-03-24 07:28 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2012-03-24 07:45 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2012-03-24 13:48 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2012-03-24 19:32 (UTC) - Expand

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urplesquirrel.livejournal.com - 2012-03-24 13:29 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-03-24 16:39 (UTC) - Expand

Rape (in many places) is actually the forcible (via physical or mental coercion) insertion of a foreign object into the body without consent. Neither a penis nor an orgasm are required.

Reread what I posted: "Generally in rape the penis goes in an orifice in a sexual manner until orgasm is achieved."

Many people consider the word "sex" to imply/require consent and that if consent was not present then it wasn't "sex" it was rape.

As far as I see it sex is the physical act. There is no emotional connotations to the word. It's not making love, it's not "sleeping with" someone, it's just the physical act. We use the word "sex" when two animals engage in it, so I'm not seeing any consent there.

Many people define the loss of virginity as the fist time someone has CONSENSUAL sex (since you seem to have trouble understand that people don't consider rape to be sex).

That's great, but that's not what it is. Rape is so horrific because it's forcing someone to have sex with someone against their will. I understand why people would want rape not to count as sex, but the physical act is sex.

Thus, if a virgin is raped, she is still a virgin because you don't stop being a virgin until you CHOOSE to have sex.

Yeah, you keep holding onto that idea and see where it gets you. Why don't you go into victims' groups and share your "wisdom." I'm sure they would love to hear you dismiss their pain as imaginary as they're still totally virgin and if they say otherwise they're wrong. Keep telling them that the rapist didn't take away any extra as they were virgins. I'm sure they'd love to hear that.

For someone who wants me to reread their post you clearly having read mine closely enough, my last sentence was clearly the conclusion drawn from the second to last sentence. So, the "many people" from the second to last sentence still applies. As you know, "many people" doesn't mean all. Personally, I think virginity is such an arbitrary thing (does oral count? do hand jobs? ect.) that as far as I'm concerned a vague "I consider myself experienced/inexperienced" is sufficient for many situations where you'd have to share your sexual history and it's totally up to each person to make that call themselves regardless of other peoples opinions.

Also, don't fucking put words in my mouth about pain being imaginary. A rape hurts as much as it hurts. Period. It varies for each individual. If someone is telling someone else that they "should" be hurting more or less for ANY reason then they are a horrible person. Given that peoples reactions to and recovery from rape vary so vastly, I imagine having someone tell you that you're still a virgin would be comforting to some and upsetting to others. Generally, if I was comforting someone after they were assaulted, I wouldn't presume to comment, I would just try and be their for them however they wanted me to be there.

In addition, the words we use to describe animals mating have no bearing on conversations about consent with humans precisely because animals are incapable for forming consent. It's the same word, but the meaning changes depending on context (for some people). It's also frequently called mating not sex in the scientific community as well.

The physical act of rape is identical (more or less) to sex. This doesn't automatically make rape and sex the same thing. The mental and emotional parts have a huge impact on the experience, making them sufficiently different to be considered separate things by many people.

Personally, I think virginity is such an arbitrary thing (does oral count? do hand jobs? ect.) that as far as I'm concerned a vague "I consider myself experienced/inexperienced" is sufficient for many situations where you'd have to share your sexual history and it's totally up to each person to make that call themselves regardless of other peoples opinions.

You don't get to decide other people's identities for them, nice try though.

lso, don't fucking put words in my mouth about pain being imaginary. A rape hurts as much as it hurts. Period. It varies for each individual. If someone is telling someone else that they "should" be hurting more or less for ANY reason then they are a horrible person

You just said that it doesn't count as losing virginity, so then what do you say about people who say they lost their virginity to rape? They're wrong? They're wrong for feeling that way?

The physical act of rape is identical (more or less) to sex

Sex is only the physical act. You can keep trying to dress it up as more, but that's not the case. Sex is referred to physical aspects of things again and again and again. You don't get to change the definition just like that.

This doesn't automatically make rape and sex the same thing. The mental and emotional parts have a huge impact on the experience, making them sufficiently different to be considered separate things by many people.

Rape is very different from consensual sex, but rape is a kind of sex, a horrible kind of sex, but a kind of sex all the same. Sex is the name of the category.

Personally, I think virginity is such an arbitrary thing (does oral count? do hand jobs? ect.) that as far as I'm concerned a vague "I consider myself experienced/inexperienced" is sufficient for many situations where you'd have to share your sexual history and it's totally up to each person to make that call themselves regardless of other peoples opinions.

You don't get to decide other people's identities for them, nice try though.

How was that not me letting other people determine their own levels of sexual experience? I want is for society as a whole to stop treating sexual experience as a yes/no binary concept. I'm not going to jump in and correct a persons description of their sexual experience - frankly it's none of my business.

Additionally, I am using the words "many people" repeatedly for a purpose. This is because I am explaining common beliefs and arguments with you. They are not necessarily my own opinion on the topic.

People change the definitions of words all the time, so the "you can't change the definition just like that" would only work if I was the only person using the word sex like that. I am not, I am just the only person currently talking to you that does.

However, we are clearly using different definitions of the word sex. Since many people disagree on the exact definition of sex in this case (as I have heard many people say that in must include consent and many people such as your self say it doesn't), we are going to have to agree to disagree on that topic.

Personally, I think we should be moving towards a definition that includes consent because I think this will help avoid apologist language. (I've heard on the news a rape described as "He had sex with her while she was passed out." Clearly, that was a rape and using the word sex in that context unfairly minimizes the severity of the crime that took place.) This is just my personal opinion and not (yet) universally shared.

(I'd also like to mention, in regards something you said two comments up, please don't ever tell someone who was just raped that they are no longer a virgin. Even if you don't agree, just don't.)