[ SECRET POST #1958 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1958 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.


__________________________________________________



13.


__________________________________________________



14.


__________________________________________________



15.


__________________________________________________



16.


__________________________________________________



17.


__________________________________________________



18.


__________________________________________________



19.


__________________________________________________



20.


__________________________________________________






Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 104 secrets from Secret Submission Post #280.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

I think it's just that my personal view is that people who are good, decent sorts of human beings would not call themselves "bronies" knowing what "bronies" do, and how they treat women, POCs, LGBT people, and so on. I mean, ffs, Harp, bronies sent rape and death threats to women just because they were against the offensive portrayal of the character previously known as "Derpy" (I call her Bubbletea, something which was suggested on feminist_mlp that I think is the cutest thing ever). Not to mention.. I mean, just look at Prejudice is Magic on tumblr ffs. Bronies are pretty much terrible people. (I gave up on the quotation marks, I'm lazy.)

I can talk about it here or over PM, I really don't mind talking about it. But having become a fan of MLP:FiM and seen firsthand the way bronies treat and talk about women, I simply cannot find it in myself to think anything good of someone who willingly takes that label. I just can't. Calling yourself a "brony" isn't like calling yourself a fan -- someone calling themselves a brony might as well be saying "I'm an entitled misogynist." There is nothing okay about bronies or "brony culture."

I just... it's not about tolerance or understanding, you know? There are things that should NOT be tolerated and which pass understanding. Bronies are all about making a show that was made for women and girls about them, for them, and wanting to own that. If they just wanted to enjoy the show and maybe draw some (non-explicit, non-disgusting) fanart, they'd just call themselves "fans." They call themselves "bronies" so that they can exclude women, push them out, and further make it theirs. The "Derpy" debacle is just another way this has been made clear. That's not something I feel is "live and let live" and something we should tolerate, and it's not just a few bad apples here -- it's the whole damn tree.

[(Anonymous)]

PROUD female brony here, who is also learning disabled.

Your supposed "innocent female fans" who were allegedly sent rape and death threats over the Derpy debacle weren't innocent, either. Yeah, see how you feel when supposed "innocent female fans" are telling you you're too retarded to have an opinion on Derpy's offensiveness, only using more "PC" language. Oh don't worry, little mentally disabled MLP fan, just go sit over there and let the neurotypical SJWs protect you. Fuck that noise, and when I said that, I started getting even more shit, saying I needed to go back to school and should just sit down and shut up since I was too stupid to argue my own defense.

It was the bronies that came to my defense. Not the whiny little bitches who set out from the start to demonize them, for enjoying a show about technicolor horses. You're so full of bullshit it's unbelievable. Either you have never engaged with a brony at all, or you came in spewing your bile about how you hate them all. You make me sick, and make me ashamed to unfortunately have to share a gender with you. No wonder you've gotten shit from bronies, you brought it on yourself.

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

PROUD female brony here

So, you're proud of being aligned with racist, misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic, ableist assholes? You're off to a great start!

Your supposed "innocent female fans" who were allegedly sent rape and death threats

I saw the threats with my own two eyes. They were not "alleged."

over the Derpy debacle weren't innocent, either.

No one deserves to be sent rape and death threats, no matter what.

Yeah, see how you feel when supposed "innocent female fans" are telling you you're too retarded to have an opinion on Derpy's offensiveness, only using more "PC" language.

I personally never saw any examples of this, but I'm sorry if that happened to you.

It was the bronies that came to my defense.

Not shocking, since your POV lines up neatly with their ableist, misogynistic bullshit and defense of the ableist caricature that was "Derpy."

Not the whiny little bitches

And you show your true colors even more than when you tried to be a rape threat denier, by proving yourself a misogynist. You truly do fit in with the bronies.

who set out from the start to demonize them, for enjoying a show about technicolor horses.

In case you didn't catch it, that's not why I or anyone else hates or "demonizes" bronies. We "demonize" bronies because THEY ARE ALL FUCKING MISOGYNIST SCUM.

You're so full of bullshit it's unbelievable. Either you have never engaged with a brony at all, or you came in spewing your bile about how you hate them all.

lawl. I have interacted with bronies, actually. They're fucking pigs and assholes. And uh, misogynists, racists, homophobes, transphobes, and just as a bonus, ableists!

You make me sick, and make me ashamed to unfortunately have to share a gender with you.

The feeling is mutual, you misogynistic little shit.

No wonder you've gotten shit from bronies, you brought it on yourself.

We cap it off with victim-blaming! I SCORED A BINGO!

[(Anonymous)]

Don't believe me that your precious female fans didn't treat me like shit because I was disabled and had the motherfucking audacity to have an opinion that didn't line up with theirs? You fucking ableist piece of trash. I'd send you proof but I'm not going to engage with you anymore after this, because I am literally shaking with fury, you disgusting little waste of air.

You can think I'm a misogynist all you want because I think you're full of shit and because I refuse to censor myself to make you happy. You probably don't want to know what I think of you after this exchange.

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

I didn't say that I didn't believe you, but clearly you're just reading whatever you want to into what I wrote.

You are a misogynist. You victim-blame, deny rape threats, and call women "whiny little bitches," above and beyond your affiliation with a deeply and horrifically misogynistic group. You're a misogynist. And I could really care less what some fucking anon misogynist thinks of me.

[(Anonymous)]

OK, now that I've calmed down somewhat, I'll try to reply to this more coherently than just "RAEG!"

I will offer a partial apology. I used the term "allegedly" because while I did see death threats, I did not see any rape threats first-hand, only heard about them second- and third-hand. I was a bit preoccupied at the time with fending off the individuals supposedly on the "right side" attacking me for my disability. Because that is still something that triggers a knee-jerk reaction, I assumed you did not believe me, and I went off on you- you didn't really deserve that level of rage. I still think you are an asshole, but I have been the bigger asshole here.

I stuck up for the bronies because they protected me without even knowing me against people who were saying I should have been aborted because I was obviously too stupid to think straight. It is still a very sore spot, and I lashed out in rage at you, when you really hadn't done anything to warrant it.

You may or may not take this in the spirit it was meant, but whatever. I overreacted, and I apologize for some of what I said.

[(Anonymous)]

Not wanting to jump into the wank here (though I know I am), but I just wanted to throw in two things:

1.) I don't think that you should throw EVERYONE under the "bronies are bad" bus. I have a very good friend who got into MLP, and she dubs herself a brony, and even has an RD shirt with that term on it. Before you start ragging about how she must be a terrible person, she knows NOTHING about the fandom. NOTHING. She doesn't participate in fandom discussions, she doesn't write fic or look at art. She just likes the show, saw the shirt, liked the pun, bought it. So she considers herself a brony, and no, she's not a terrible person. She's actually one of the sweetest people I've ever met.

And even in the fandom, there are people who call themselves "bronies" that aren't terrible people. (No, I'm not one of them -- I prefer the term "pegasister.") You shouldn't generalize. I realize you've had bad experiences, and believe me, I've had bad experiences too, but generalizing still isn't the best thing to do.

And

2.) The term "derpy" is NOT ableist. It has absolutely nothing to do with mental disability. For the record, the term "derp" was coined by Matt Stone and Trey Parker (of South Park fame) in their movie BASEketball, and was later popularized in South Park. It merely refers to a stupid mistake/action someone makes (primarily because the substitute teacher in South Park named Mr. Derp would make mistakes, and then exclaim "derp!" after he did so). So in other words, if you accidentally poured salt in your coffee instead of sugar, whoops! You derped. The internet later started applying it to mismatched eyes, which is why the term was passed onto Ditzy Doo/Derpy Hooves/Bubbletea/that gray mare with the blonde mane and bubbles cutie mark. It has NOTHING TO DO with mental retardation. It absolutely isn't ableist. And honestly? Derpy/Ditzy/whatever you want to call her is one of the most popular ponies in fandom. I've never seen anything negative about her, not once. If anything, if she WAS supposed to be disabled (which she never was in the first place), fandom overall has/wants a positive portrayal of her (which is usually that of a clumsy but earnest hardworker and loving mother). I don't consider myself a brony, but the entire Derpy wank pissed me off, especially since most people (you included, apparently) didn't even know the actual origin of the word, and by saying "IT'S ABLEIST!!" you're MAKING it ableist, taking an otherwise innocent word and twisting it to hold negative connotations (which has happened with plenty of other words in the past -- the sexuality slur "f" word, for example).

I didn't want to jump into the wank, but I just couldn't resist here. Please, before spreading your SJ wank, try to do a bit of research, first. And stop generalizing, too. There are bad people in every fandom, under every label, but the dogs with the worst temper have the loudest bark. Not everyone is like that.

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

TRIGGER WARNING: ABLEIST & HOMOPHOBIC SLURS

I don't think that you should throw EVERYONE under the "bronies are bad" bus.

Why not? Bronies and the brony subculture is bad -- it's offensive, terrible, and disgusting. Period.

I have a very good friend who got into MLP, and she dubs herself a brony, and even has an RD shirt with that term on it. Before you start ragging about how she must be a terrible person, she knows NOTHING about the fandom. NOTHING. [...] So she considers herself a brony, and no, she's not a terrible person.

I'm sure she's not. However, she is an ignorant person (and I don't mean this in a cruel way -- I'm not calling her stupid, just saying she is lacking in knowledge). Even the name brony is, as I've explained already in this thread, offensive and exclusionary to women. Brony culture is offensive in many ways, including but not limited to misogyny, homophobia, racism, ableism, and transphobia. And I'm sorry, but before you start calling yourself something, maybe you should look up what it actually means, because "brony" doesn't mean "fan of MLP:FiM." It means "male fan of a particular type of MLP:FiM." I think maybe your friend should have done a Google search before buying that shirt.

(I've seen that shirt. It's cute. If it didn't say "brony" I would've bought it in a heartbeat. As it was, I asked my girlfriend if she thought I'd get in trouble if I damaged it -- since we were in an FYI, she said yes, haha.)

And even in the fandom, there are people who call themselves "bronies" that aren't terrible people.

If they continue to call themselves "bronies" and identify with the bronies, especially while involving themselves in fandom and thus knowing just what bronies, especially as a mass and subculture/subfandom, they are terrible people. Maybe not very terrible people. But they are enablers. They are willing enablers and presumably fully willing to turn a blind eye to the bigotry and disgustingness of their peers. Ergo, they ain't exactly smellin' lovely.

The term "derpy" is NOT ableist. It has absolutely nothing to do with mental disability.

Yes, it is, and yes, it does. (http://fromonesurvivortoanother.tumblr.com/post/15821397354/trigger-warning-ableism-ableist-slurs-an-open)

For the record, the term "derp" was coined by Matt Stone and Trey Parker (of South Park fame) in their movie BASEketball, and was later popularized in South Park.

Shockingly, language evolves. Sometimes in bad ways. Do you also try to argue with people that "fag" isn't offensive because in the Middle Ages it referred to a pile of sticks? No? Okay then!

It merely refers to a stupid mistake/action someone makes

No, it doesn't (http://fromonesurvivortoanother.tumblr.com/post/15024523125/how-to-tell-if-derp-is-ableist).

I don't consider myself a brony, but the entire Derpy wank pissed me off, especially since most people (you included, apparently) didn't even know the actual origin of the word, and by saying "IT'S ABLEIST!!" you're MAKING it ableist, taking an otherwise innocent word and twisting it to hold negative connotations (which has happened with plenty of other words in the past -- the sexuality slur "f" word, for example).

Wow. Wow. Did you just try to argue that people made "fag" offensive by arguing against it too much? Are you fucking kidding me? You are just.. you have NO IDEA what the fuck you're talking about, do you? Really just no idea.

First off: "Fag" was offensive LONG BEFORE people started actively speaking out about how offensive it is!

Second: "Derp" was offensive LONG BEFORE "Derpy" was featured in MLP:FiM!

Third: "Derp" was always offensive and ableist!

Fourth: You are seriously coming off as both ableist and homophobic. I suggest you consider educating yourself before you try to argue that if something isn't blatantly offensive the very first time it was ever used, it never can be. Jesus fuck. Get the fuck out of here and take your bullshit with you.

[(Anonymous)]

You, Madam, are incredibly persuasive. Just reading your frothing rage, your dismissal of opinions differing at all from yours, your intensely judgmental and self-righteous attitude, and your complete ignorance of the way the world works has made me reconsider using the term 'Brony'--which until now I had thought was incredibly stupid and cheesy--and resolve to use derpy much more often in my daily life. Cheers!

[(Anonymous)]

I've never seen anything negative about her, not once.

Yeah, because making a character out to be completely clumsy and muffin-obsessed because of an animation mistake is totally positive. The bronies wanted something to laugh at and to be the butt of their jokes, end of story. Yes, some fanwork has portrayed her to be a loving mother or with a good heart, but that was not the original intention by any means. For them to suddenly turn around and act like they were being altruistic and tolerant this entire time when they just went "Lol, weird eyes pony! DERP A HERP A DERPY DOO!" is absolutely disgusting.

[(Anonymous)]

you're one of the reasons this had to exist

http://lafemmesfatales.blogspot.com/2012/06/readers-all-one-and-half-of-you-and.html

[(Anonymous)]

Ugh. I've been reading a bunch of this thread and well...I'm not actively involved in the fandom, only tangentially so, and I'm sure it's got a bunch of shit just like any fandom. Maybe it's worse, I don't know, and I'm not going to argue that point.

However.

I find your assertion that ALL bronies - any guy who uses that word to describe himself - is a "pig, asshole, misogynist, racist, homophobe, transphobe, and ableist" to be quite offensive. Two of my good guy friends - one of whom is one of my best friends - identify as "bronies" and they are nothing of the sort. They're not really involved in fandom either (one of them browses the Internet for memes and shit, but doesn't really do any forums, and the other isn't really involved at all). They probably don't know about all the shit that went down with various Internet bronies - and even if they did, would they be obligated to stop calling themselves a "brony" just because some people who use that title have majorly fucked up?

A brony is a male pony fan (or a female one who just likes the word "brony"; personally I use "pegasister" but ymmv). The word "brony" doesn't mean anything else but that. I would go and call the fuckups assholes and pigs, not bronies, or at least not "the only bronies that exist". They are assholes and pigs regardless of whatever else you call them. My friends are not assholes and pigs. They just like ponies and happen to be guys.

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

I find your assertion that ALL bronies - any guy who uses that word to describe himself - is a "pig, asshole, misogynist, racist, homophobe, transphobe, and ableist" to be quite offensive.

Okay, let me rephrase: "Any guy who uses the word brony to describe himself is either a misogynist, racist, homophobe, transphone, ableist and asshole, or they are an enabler and supporter of misogynists, racists, homophobes, transphobes, ableists and assholes." Better?

Two of my good guy friends - one of whom is one of my best friends - identify as "bronies" and they are nothing of the sort.

If they were nothing of the sort, they'd be... fans, not "bronies."

They're not really involved in fandom either (one of them browses the Internet for memes and shit, but doesn't really do any forums, and the other isn't really involved at all). They probably don't know about all the shit that went down with various Internet bronies - and even if they did, would they be obligated to stop calling themselves a "brony" just because some people who use that title have majorly fucked up?

Because the very name "brony" is misogynist, in that it explicitly names the subculture as for men only, and the group actively seeks to exclude women? Because a Google search could tell them more than enough to justify ditching the label? Because it's not just "some people" in the brony group who have fucked up, it's the majority of them? Wow.

A brony is a male pony fan

No. Just no. Full stop. A male pony fan is a "fan." Bronies are a specific subfandom/subculture group. It is not the same thing.

I would go and call the fuckups assholes and pigs, not bronies, or at least not "the only bronies that exist".

So what you're saying is, I should completely ignore the enabling, facilitating and supporting atmosphere of the group wrt -isms/-phobias, the fact that it's a huge majority of the group, etc. and only go after explicitly named bronies? Wow, that's short-sighted.

My friends are not assholes and pigs. They just like ponies and happen to be guys.

Then maybe your friends should try not adopting a misogynistic fan term used by a bunch of bigots? Cos when I hear "brony" I don't think "male pony fan" -- if it were just about being a fan of MLP, they'd be a fan. A "brony" has to make it more about the fact that they're male, that they're in that subculture, that they're a guy who's into a girls' show rather than just being a fan of it. It's a completely different animal, and your friends should educate themselves.

[drunken-clowns.livejournal.com]

I did not get involved on either side of the Derpy yelling and it was over a slightly different topic, but I've also had shitty "allies" try to decide for me what was and wasn't offensive, and that's really fucking patronizing and awful. Almost nobody deserves death threats, but nobody deserves to have the people claiming to advocate for them use that role to block out any dissenting voices, either.

Don't get me wrong, I've known some shitty bronies. I've also known some really wonderful ones, and anybody saying that they're all misogynists is wrong and also has their head up their ass. (Plus, nerdy subcultures are a REALLY easy target when there's just as much douchebaggery in the general population...) I've known some shitty SJers who do it for the cookies and attention, and I've known some nice ones who really don't like unfairness and just want people to be decent to each other. Whose flag you fly doesn't determine whether you're a terrible person or not, it's how you treat others, and I think some people here could really stand to notice that.

As far as I'm aware, the people who sent the SJers death threats didn't do it because those people were speaking over fans with disabilities. No matter how wrong the SJers were, death threats are still wrong too. Doesn't make all bronies bad. Forget about people who make blanket statements like that, they're not worth it. Party with ponies if it makes you happy, anon ♥

[(Anonymous)]

I love this comment.

[harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com]

I think I'm alright for PiM on Tumblr for now. Don't remember if I told you or not, but I rather try to avoid racism discussions. Fortunately, we've met so you can kinda get why I might. I mean, you know... it's sort of a bummer going to places looking for reminders that I'm all gross an' stuff.

I just get worried when I see people talking about "all of the X". I mean you know what it's like. We were talking a year ago and you reminded me "Harp, not all people on SF_D are The Devil". And I remembered that I had not met all the people there, that the most vocal ones would logically stand out, and that you, my friend, were a member of SF_D and not a bad person, so of course I can't say that all the members were like that.

And the Supernatural fandom, specifically that one fic. You expressed real disapproval for it, which reminds me to this day that not all the people in the SPN fandom are one way.

Like I said, I just get nervous at the possibility that a very educated justice minded and fair person (and might I add someone I consider a valued friend and ally) might be getting courted away from the end goal of peace and asked to join the side of hate. Because, you know, I keep wondering "how far away can 'now that I think about it, I hate you, too' be once the hate gets going?"

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

I get that, I was just saying that it makes a very good example of the many ways in which bronies are disgusting. :\

See, I get that, but the thing is.. you know, sf_d isn't inherently a horrible place full of horrible people. People don't "name themselves" sf_ders as a symbol of anything. People name themselves "bronies", which is a name which inherently excludes women and girls. Their entire subculture excludes pretty much anyone who isn't a white straight cis able-bodied man. A huge portion of their subculture is devoted to "saving" an ableist caricature ("Derpy"), and that same portion behaves hideously towards women -- especially disabled women -- who dare to protest that. They behave with a seriously entitled attitude towards the show and are constantly saying that "bronies" are the show's "target demographic" (patently untrue) or should be, that "men make up 90% of the fans" (also untrue), and that for those reasons the show should cater to them.. flaming female fans for daring not to like "bronies" or the fact that they are a fan group that explicitly excludes women... etc.

And well, by generalizing bronies (the same way one might "generalize" that misogynists are bad people, because they are, and bronies are inherently misogynists), I'm not generalizing "all MLP:FiM fans" the way you're referencing wrt Supernatural fans. There are plenty of sane, awesome MLP:FiM fans. They just don't call themselves "bronies."

Are there probably fans of MLP:FiM who call themselves "bronies" because they don't know any better? Sure, probably. But it's their responsibility to educate themselves and distance themselves from that label. When they see someone saying "bronies are terrible fucking people," they need to open their damn eyes and go look and see WHY they said that, not just cling to the label and be like "Oh but not all of us are like that!"

I think there's something really disingenuous, tbh, about the idea that you can only be for social justice and peace if you never, ever hate anyone ever. I hate misogynists. I hate homophobes. I fucking hate Ron Paul and Mitt Romney and just about every other Republican politician. I don't think that diminishes my goals. Sure, hate isn't ideal. But you can only be stepped on so many times before you start hating the people who are fucking stepping on you, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I hate bronies because they're misogynists, and racists, and homophobes, and transphobes, and ableists. I hate them because they took something nice and sweet that deserves a safe space and turned it into a space where women can be threatened with rape because they don't toe the brony line. I hate them because even their NAME is sexist, and because I hate the entitlement they reek of. And I hate them because every single person who calls themselves a brony is showing that they're totally okay with all of that, and supportive of it, and espousing of those same views, and that makes me feel sick.

[drunken-clowns.livejournal.com]

I don't like to get involved in this shit, but your friend is trying to say something really important that you're completely missing out on. They are scared you're going to hate them over SJ- and not even something they've personally done, just SJ guilt by association. Meanwhile, you're so busy explaining why every good person should hate bronies that you either didn't notice or care that someone who you mean a lot to is worried that you hate them.

Then again, I guess being a decent friend isn't some big SJ cause or anything. Have fun with that.

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

Thanks for your condescension. I did understand that, actually, but -- not that it's any of your business or anything -- I've explained to said friend before that that isn't going to happen, and I didn't feel it necessary to address it, especially in a public forum like this, and also considering the mood I was in at the time due to all of the comments on this thread.

And that's as far as I'm willing to take this comment, so thanks for the crap and please gtfo.

[drunken-clowns.livejournal.com]

I hope you get to talk to each other about this :(

[harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com]

I think I'll send a P.M now if that's alright. I'm not able to answer it until Saturday, but I'll send one tonight.

Edit: One last thing thing. In New Orleans, I had a roomie, R. R was made of tougher stuff than I am and ze listened to conservative talk radio, feeling that "you have to know what your enemies are saying". I tried it for a bit before I just could not. Needless to say, a lot of those words stuck in my mind.

What frightens me is that sometimes in what you say, there are sentences where, if I replaced the nouns with a "liberal counterpart" it would be nearly indistinguishable from something broadcast on conservative talk radio. I know your intentions are good, but I think you get what I'm saying now.

[(Anonymous)]

D8

holy shit

you're right.

i'm not really involved in this conversation (and i'm not going to pass any judgements on anyone), but i'm going to try to think harder about how i phrase things from now on.

thank you for pointing this out.

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

already replied to your pm, but to your eta:

There is a huge, huge, oceans wide gulf between conservative hate speech a la Rush Limbaugh and more liberal lashing out against bigotry. It is a really disturbing false equivalence when people think that liberals getting fed up at bigotry and angry at bigots and judging people by the values they hold and the groups they affiliate with that are bigoted, and a conservative expressing hate for, discriminating against, advocating hate and violence towards minorities. Huge. Saying theyre similar because both are angry is just... kind of gross tbh. Really.

And now Im gonna go. Sorry for any typos, Im on my tab.

[(Anonymous)]

If I was you, I would be seriously rethinking my association with this loon. From how I've seen them act on F!S they're basically a reverse Rush Limbaugh. D:

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

Yes, being vehemently against bigotry is EXACTLY THE SAME as being a bigot! Uh huh! Right!

You're an idiot.