[ SECRET POST #2204 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2204 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 091 secrets from Secret Submission Post #315.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

(frozen comment) Why demisexual is not an orientation

[(Anonymous)]

I find there are a lot of people who feel iffy about the term, and this causes heated arguments from both sides. The discussion yesterday was pretty interesting, but I feel this pretty much sums up what demisexuality is and is not.

Sexual orientation is a person's attraction (or lack their of) related to a gender. 'Demi' is not a gender. The definition of 'demisexuality' is really just a term for how they experience sexuality. It is not an orientation. Take this example-

A man only feels sexual attraction after they have known a person for a long time/have created an 'emotional' bond with said person. This man, however, can only experience sexual attraction to other men. If you go by the notion that demisexuality is its own subset orientation then this man would be: Homosexual Demisexual.

The 'demisexual' label simply describes how this Homosexual man experiences his Homosexuality. It is not by itself an orietnation. It is a pointless label. Why?

Because sexuality is fluid. There are many, many ways human beings experience sexuality and sexual attraction. By definition demisexuals are creating a *norm* base, drawing a line in the sand, and then distancing themselves from it. This is very problematic as sexuality really is not that black and white.

(frozen comment) Re: Why demisexual is not an orientation

[childings.livejournal.com]

If you're arguing that demisexuality doesn't fall under the queer umbrella then I agree. I would agree that asexuality doesn't either for the reasons you mentioned, about it modifying an existing sexuality (either homosexual, bisexual or heterosexual), ie. an asexual straight person would not be queer

I know some asexual and demisexual people think they should be allowed to be considered queer but I disagree, I even think it's insulting to actual homosexual/bisexual people who struggle for equal representation under the law, after all, there aren't really any laws restricting demisexual or asexual people from getting married or receiving the same benefits in the workplace, etc. (unless, again, they already fall into the homosexual category).

Yes, there is a clear difference between sexuality and orientation when you put it that way

(frozen comment) Re: Why demisexual is not an orientation

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't say anything about it being considered queer, only that it isn't an orientation. :P

(frozen comment) Re: Why demisexual is not an orientation

[(Anonymous)]

"I would agree that asexuality doesn't either for the reasons you mentioned, about it modifying an existing sexuality (either homosexual, bisexual or heterosexual)."

But where does that leave aromantic asexuals? They do exist, y'know.

(frozen comment) Re: Why demisexual is not an orientation

[(Anonymous)]

For fuck's sake. Asexuality does not modify an existing sexuality. It is its own sexuality.

Honestly, I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

(frozen comment) Re: Why demisexual is not an orientation

[(Anonymous)]

Interesting words and well said.

So basically it's like how some asexuals add on 'biromantic' to say they are romantically interested in both genders (bisexual romantic).

That actually makes the term make a whole lot more sense to me.

(frozen comment) Re: Why demisexual is not an orientation

[(Anonymous)]

So, are you saying asexuality is also not an orientation? Because it's not gender-related, either. This post came up way early last night (not by me) but I'm going to copy and paste it anyway, because I think it sums up how a lot of people who id as demi feel:

I think some of the problem comes from the word "attraction." I'm going to toss out a really antiquated term here for simplicity's sake, but I think when talking about, like, courtship and trying to find someone that you would want to build a life with, I think we all DO pretty much do it the same way -- by getting to know people, forming connections and being intimate.

But when it comes to *attraction* -- just looking at someone and feeling like "my, my, they are sex on a stick!" -- that immediate sexual attraction that so many people feel (regardless of whether they would ever act on those feelings without getting to know the object of said feelings)? I don't feel that.

Never have, not once in my 30 years, and the only conclusion I've drawn from that is that it's an odd way to be. Because that is now how I've seen people around me be.

But rather than people being OK with letting me and people like me have a label for finding other people who can relate, people jump up and down and get affronted because they've got it in their head that everyone* who says "I''m not like you," is actually saying "I'm better than you. There's something wrong with you, because you're not like me." Which is kind of ironic, because then they turn around and throw that very sentiment back at us -- with "you just want to be a special snowflake, and that's something wrong with you, because -- unlike me -- you can't recognize how ridiculous you're being."

And no, it's not oppression because some people on the internet are mean to me, but it's not a nice feeling either.

* I'm under no delusion that there aren't people who identify as demisexual who are just as slut-shamey as people say, but it is hurtful when people blatantly ignore, mock or devalue the person who says "but I'M not like that. We're NOT all like that," just because they had a bad experience.

It got followed up with a shit-ton of "BUT YOU'RE NOT OPPRESSED!" But read it. Seriously, READ IT. We're not all claiming to *~oppressed~*.

(frozen comment) Re: Why demisexual is not an orientation

[(Anonymous)]

Sexual orientation is a person's attraction (or lack their of) related to a gender. :)

(frozen comment) Re: Why demisexual is not an orientation

[(Anonymous)]

Again, that does not make it an orientation. A woman is sexually attracted to both men and women, but only after she forms a bond. She is Bisexual, not Bisexual Demisexual. She experiences her Bisexuality in a certain way, but it isn't an orientation.

(frozen comment) Re: Why demisexual is not an orientation

[(Anonymous)]

Ok, maybe you're not claiming to be oppressed, but seriously? A ton of people feel this way. It is not a special sexual orientation to not be attracted to many people.

When you're this determined to examine yourself to the extent that you convince yourself you're somehow different from most other humans, I'm sorry, that does come off as thinking you're maybe not better, but 'more special' than others. Hence the special snowflake backlash.

(frozen comment) Re: Why demisexual is not an orientation

[(Anonymous)]

The way it makes sense to me, orientation determines who you're attracted to - the target of your attraction - and stuff like asexuality or demisexuality refers to the various ways in which attraction is expressed (or not expressed) and the many different factors that relate to that.

Just my way of making sense of it, anyway.

(frozen comment) WHY?

[hoggle2807]

Fuck it, I'm not logging out.

Why are you doing this? Seriously, why? As if that massive thread yesterday wasn't proof enough that 98 percent of fandom!secrets agrees with you, now you feel the need to trot it all out again so the other 2 percent can keep feeling shitty?

Please, stop. Let it go. You win the terminology war and all the internet cookies with your rightness and we'll just sit over here being wrong in our wrongness -- but at least we'll be able to find each other.

(frozen comment) Re: WHY?

[(Anonymous)]

I wasn't part of the thread yesterday, I only lurked. Discussing issues is not a personal attack against you.

(frozen comment) Re: WHY?

[chardmonster]

I am shittysexual and can only feel sexual attraction when someone is making me feel shitty

The OP is really turning me on right now, please do not slow their roll

(frozen comment) Re: WHY?

[(Anonymous)]

You shouldn't feel shitty. A large majority of sexuals actually experience their sexuality just. like. you. You're not oppressed, you're not having your rights taken away (Unless you are homosexual), and you're enjoying the company of someone you love. You have no reason to feel shitty just because someone brought up that that label is not an orientation.

(frozen comment) Re: WHY?

[(Anonymous)]

Can we have cupcakes in our wrongness? Since the judgey bastards stole all the cookies :(

(frozen comment) Re: Why demisexual is not an orientation

[(Anonymous)]

i've never seen anyone describe it as a sexuality, but as a measure of sexual attraction they experience. asexuality isn't an orientation either, so i'm not really following your statement lol

(frozen comment) Re: Why demisexual is not an orientation

[(Anonymous)]

I have never seen demisexuality defined as anything other than an orientation. Have you missed the hundreds of tumblr posts/forums/blogs specifically decrying anyone who says demisexuality isn't an orientation/that it totally is an orientation?

(frozen comment) Re: Why demisexual is not an orientation

[(Anonymous)]

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/demisexual

(frozen comment) Re: Why demisexual is not an orientation

[saku]

how is asexuality not an orientation? aces are such because they don't face sexual attraction to anybody regardless of gender. it's not an addition to another sexuality, it is its own (or lack thereof, rather).

aces can be romantic but romantic attraction and sexual attraction are not the same thing.

(frozen comment) Demisexual=Sexual attraction to demigods

[(Anonymous)]

Hercules, UNF.

(frozen comment) Re: Why you're kind of a moron

[(Anonymous)]

Demisexuality is not a subset of anything. Your example describes a homosexual man with a higher emotional to physical attraction ratio, seeing as his only criterion for physical attraction is that the person is another man. He is not demisexual, he's a regular homosexual. He should be happy that this is the case, as he now has an accepted label that won't get him attacked on the internet.

Demisexuals do not have a single criterion for physical attraction; unlike pansexuals, though, they cannot find anybody who is not their partner/emotional crush physically attractive in any way (expect maybe aesthetically). Without a partner or emotional crush, they're attracted to nobody. It's just not there. Unlike asexuals, though, they still have a sex drive and sexual desire, it's just not directed anywhere.

Believe me, my boyfriend would love to have another label other than "demisexual" to use, seeing as he can't even say anything about it without assholes calling him a slut-shamer or whatever. This isn't some speshul snoflayke olympics; he's got enough to worry about without the internet attacking one of the few things that he's actually sure about.

(frozen comment) Re: Why demisexual is not an orientation

[saku]

demisexuality isn't a thing because it's about the amount of sexual attraction rather than who you are sexually attracted to. a cis woman who likes to fuck guys but only after getting to know them is a pretty average straight chick and if she calls herself demisexual she's just upset that she's not getting special attention

(frozen comment) Re: Why demisexual is not an orientation

[(Anonymous)]

As someone who could ostensibly be labelled demisexual (though I don't identify as such), I agree that it isn't a sexual orientation.

However, it is a masking factor for figuring out your sexual orientation, given that a person who experiences sexual attraction this way who has never been in a romantic relationship will likely considered themselves asexual (as I did for at least a decade), and then upon entering a first relationship and developing sexual feelings, can only draw a few conclusions (ie. you can rule out being either straight or gay, depending on if they're your same gender or not, but it leaves the possibility of being either bi or exclusive to one gender). If you manage to enter several romantic relationships, you can more reliably hypothesize about your 'true' orientation.

I do get annoyed when people act like this is a particularly common method of attraction, though, given that the majority of people seem to be able to work out their sexual orientations independent of being in a relationship (with some having more difficulty than others, of course). I'm not sure where anyone gets the idea that it's normal for people not to be physically attracted to people until they're in an established relationship. Everything I've ever seen in the media or the people around me does not support that. Why would people ever start dating someone they're not previously friends with if there wasn't some sort of initial attraction that drives them to want to become more intimate (emotionally and/or physically)?

(frozen comment) Demisexuals VS Queer

[(Anonymous)]

LGBT people:
oppressed by people saying they're abnormal

demisexuals:
oppressed by people saying they're normal