[ SECRET POST #2290 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2289 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.
[Dangan Ronpa]


__________________________________________________



03.
[Berserk]


__________________________________________________



04.
[Thomas Was Alone]


__________________________________________________



05.
[Paranatural]


__________________________________________________



06.
[Supernatural]


__________________________________________________



07.
[Christoph Waltz]


__________________________________________________



08.
[Lost In Austen]


__________________________________________________



09.
[Les Miserables]


__________________________________________________



10.
[Harry Potter]


__________________________________________________



11.
[Amanda Palmer]


__________________________________________________



12.
[Bioshock Infinite]


__________________________________________________



13.
[Red Riding Hood]


__________________________________________________



14.
[Girls Next Door]


__________________________________________________



15.
[Arthur]


__________________________________________________



16.
[Roosterteeth]


__________________________________________________


















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 038 secrets from Secret Submission Post #327.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

12. http://i.imgur.com/a6oWUof.jpg
[Bioshock Infinite]

[(Anonymous)]

Or, in my opinion, they haven't bothered to even read the plot (or a synopsis, even) of Bioshock Infinite and are all too eager to wank about it.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I've seen some of that, but I've seen a lot of people on the tumblr tag that have played the game and were really upset about the Vox. some said shooting the Vox was like "shooting myself" for example.

Re: OP

[insanenoodlyguy]

Social Justice Warriors, wanting to finish the game but so sad they are killing their ideal dystopia fighters. How sweet the tears

Re: OP

[saku]

their fault for playing a game belonging to a franchise whose first two games were entirely about extremism being detrimental to a harmonious and inclusive society.

[insanenoodlyguy]

Right attitude. The only problem is this shouldn't be a secret. Say it openly and secure in your sanity!

op

[(Anonymous)]

yeah but then I actually have to talk to the SJWs.

[gobbledigook]

Sounds like you're being kind of an extremist in your judgment of people, OP

OP

[(Anonymous)]

...touche. maybe. probably to some degree.

but seriously, I don't think the game is anti-labor movement any more than it's anti-religion. hell, I think the Vox come across as at least a little sympathetic. and sometimes the people complaining about them make it seem like the violence seen in the game is A-OK if it's the Vox, since they're the oppressed lower-class citizens.

[scrubber]

Well this is a conflict/debate that I would say is as old as time if I had any fricken' examples of the top of my head, so when it pops up in fiction I'm not surprised people have a lot of feelings about it. I don't just mean the powerful vs. the oppressed, but the question of does the reason someone does something matter as much as what they're doing? There has to be a more eloquent way to distill it, but I'm not that smart (obviously). Aaaaaand, I'm inclined to agree with you OP. When I see people get upset about the Vox, it really comes across like they are upset on principle. "They're saying the revolutionary, oppressed masses are the same as the privileged, white oppressors? DISGUSTING." I mean, I guess that's all there is to it if you see the world in three colors. Though Daisy's doing what she's doing for all the right reasons, at what point do her (and the Vox's) terrible actions speak for themselves? Fuckin NEVER if you are a SJW. The anticipation of the super right-wing having meltdowns over this game baffled me, because the super SJ types were also bound to freak the fuck out and call Ken Levine a huge racist and the face of privilege. And they are. Though, I've been hanging around tumblr fandom way too long.

Though for some reason, I've seen less arguments about the politics in BioShock Infinite than I anticipated and more about dat ending. Which is both a blessing and a curse in terms of entertainment. :( :) :S

Hrrrrng. How to feel. How bout those Luteces?

OP

[(Anonymous)]

The Luteces are badass. Although I'm not sure how I feel about how obsessed Rosalind seems to be with her "brother." I kind of want to ship them but I'm normally not into...y'know...

Spoilers obv

[scrubber]

If you are going to bang yourself from another dimension where you are a man? Kay. Okay. That's... pretty fucking weird but, okay. But WHY are you calling him your "brother"??? ;----; That just rubs in the weirdness.


OKAY FINE it's not explicit that they are banging, but they do share a bed. And you are going to spend the rest of infinite eternity together you're going to have to bang event-

My God. Truly, BioShock makes monsters of us all.

[insanenoodlyguy]

So far, the only complaint from the religious side I've seen (mind, I'm sure a big portion of the ones that'd be angry have simply resolved not to play a violent game from a violent series anyway so didn't bother looking at what they knew they'd hate anyway) was about the lyrics choices for "Will the circle be unbroken."

I did see an actual anarchist forum that was upset about the Vox Populai, but that doesn't really count I think.

[scrubber]

Yeah, scratching my head at all the people saying "Fox News will shit their pants over this."

...Fox News doesn't know and doesn't care? At all? It's a little teenager-ish to think the people you hate are more invested in you than they actually are. But the internet's a big teenager anyway, so what am I saying.

As for upset religious people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwsjALh2vYA

At 8:30 or so Ken tells about an upset employee. This is the most relevant story I've seen so far, and it's pretty small. I don't agree with this person (assuming the ending is what it is now, of course), but I don't judge them really. And Ken handled it with pure class, so nothing to see here folks. Except a neat little story.

[sugar_spun]

Eh, when PoCs are almost never represented in media--ESPECIALLY video games--and you make the first video game to deal with actual non-elf racism in a long time about how the oppressed are just as bad? Yes, it's actually about extremism, but still.

I totally see it.

Nothing against how the game does it, it's just very frustrating, I imagine. It doesn't help the main two characters are white and there's only one major black character and she is actually said aloud to be just as bad as the racist murderous kidnapping genocidal asshole.

Again, I understand it's about extremism. But the game was not morally or philosophically deep enough, I think, to go over these kind of issues, since it abandoned the civil war and Vox Populi as a premise half way through the game.

[insanenoodlyguy]

Would it have been better the make Daisy white then? Irish perhaps?

I think as far as that subject went any choice they'd have made was a no win situation unless they changed the game entirely.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Interesting fact: Daisy was originally Irish, and changed to be a black woman later. I'm not sure why that choice was made. My guess would be that maybe they wanted a prominent character in the game that WASN'T white but I honestly don't know if that's the reason.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I do understand some of the frustration from that angle, but at the same time I feel like if characters from minority races can't be portrayed as complex and varied as white characters--even if it means that they're villains sometimes--then they'll never be portrayed as really equal or as viable characters? (it could be that I just play too many JRPGs and such to see the problem, though. I only ever play shooters if they're co-op like Left 4 Dead or if they're heavy on story like BI.)

Maybe some more POC allies would've been helpful? All I can think of off the top of my head is the gunsmith (sort of) and the mixed-race couple (if you throw the ball at the announcer).

[(Anonymous)]

This is pretty much an issue with much of media as a whole, and while I agree with you, it still kind of sucks to see Bioshock take heat based on issues with media in the west as a whole rather than its own merits as a story.

Still video games almost never tackle the issue from a non-fantasy standpoint so its not quite as tired as it is in movies or books. Unfortunately, we are unlikely to see it from a non-fantasy setting for awhile, can you imagine the blowup that would occur if a studio full of white male nerds tried to tackle racism or sexism in a serious historical setting, you would be able to see the flame wars from the moon.

spoilers ofc

[saku]

the race of the protagonist, primary antagonist, deuteragonist and daisy fitzroy were more or less integral to the story of columbia, which was secondary to the plot and its focus on constants and variables.

the vox populi didn't just represent poc though, they represented the downtrodden and destitute, those who were fucked over by comstock and fink, and that group was comprised mostly of poc and those of irish descent. it could be argued, thus, that daisy could have been white and irish (as iirc they originally intended her to be) but then the wank would be about white saviours (and to an extent it already is since one alternate booker was a martyr for the vox cause).

infinite wasn't telling us that the oppressed were just as bad as comstock, fink and all the other institutional oppressors. infinite was telling us, through fitzroy's cause, that extremism is harmful regardless of which side you are on. fitzroy didn't want to stop at liberating the oppressed or making life better for those people. she wanted to punish the oppressors in violent ways - not just the oppressors, even, but all those associated with them. her focus was on revenge, not a better life, which the game made obvious between first meeting her and watching her die. i equate it to how they portrayed atlas/frank fontaine in bioshock 1, though to a lesser extent. fitzroy was depicted as being a beacon of hope for the otherwise hopeless, but in the end she shows her true colours.

vague spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

I know it's slightly tangential, but can I just take this moment to vent about how poorly (imo) the whole Vox Populi plotline was handled? They just seem so...inconsequential, almost like an afterthought to the main plot. This was very disappointing because the trailers made it seem like the Founders/Vox conflict would be crucial to the game, but it's just kinda there. At a certain point I thought you would have to choose sides (after the "audition" part in Finkton), but nope. The main characters just seem so detached from the whole conflict; it basically just served as a backdrop to fight random enemies tbh.

And OP, I completely agree. I get a little weirded out when I see people supporting Daisy because, well, she was about to shoot a little boy in the head because he might grow up to be like his father. Seriously, wtf?

Re: vague spoilers

[elaminator]

+1. I loved the game but it definitely wasn't quite what was advertised. More focus on Columbia and the Vox's storyline would've done the game a world of good.

Re: vague spoilers

[saku]

i both agree and disagree? i thin kthe game would have been cool if they focused on columbia rather than the whole metaphysical universe stuff, but it would have been a completely different game, i think. the game was built such that every decision the player makes is inconsequential, but it extends beyond that - columbia itself becomes entirely secondary as a result.

i think the infinite team did this on purpose, because we - or at least i personally - went into the game expecting the mechanics to be the same as the first two bioshocks. we get alternate endings that vary depending on our ethical decisions throughout the process of exploring rapture. but in making those decisions in infinite unimportant, it leads us up to the point where - surprise - columbia isn't even the main focus. it takes us away from the expectations we brought into the experience and sets infinite apart from bioshock 1 and 2.

that being said though, i would have loved for infinite to focus on columbia and all its problems. columbia is really, really interesting, and they could have done so much with it if they'd chosen to. the vox populi were so important to the story of columbia - if columbia was made the focus, the vox would be one of the most vital aspects of the environment we're thrust into.

really, they already are, i think? everything is set up for columbia to be the focus of the story, it's just ripped out from underneath us. i hope they extend on columbia's story in another game (which i'm doubting will happen but i can dream).

[(Anonymous)]

I was kind of peeved that Daisy turned out to be such a bitter psycho tbh. I had a lot of sympathy for the vox but then they were turned into some revenge seeking group that just killed random Columbians. Meh.

[insanenoodlyguy]

It wasn't a "wrong vs right" fight. It was extremism vs extremism.

A corrupt and broken society will have a corrupt and broken revolution.