[ SECRET POST #2329 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2329 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.


__________________________________________________



13.


__________________________________________________



14.


__________________________________________________



15.


__________________________________________________




















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 083 secrets from Secret Submission Post #333.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

15. http://i39.tinypic.com/4dd10.jpg

[dreemyweird]

On the one hand, yes, it is very weird for some universes. Say, I would be mightily nonplussed if this happened to canon!Holmes and Watson.

On the other hand, nobody claims that this stuff is IC. More often than not it is really just fap material.

And, assuming that I have the third hand, this is only the tip of the problem with genderswap: sadly, in the majority of the cases genderswap means "everything in previously normal, balanced characters is suddenly about their gender". Which is irritating, yes.

[(Anonymous)]

And, assuming that I have the third hand, this is only the tip of the problem with genderswap: sadly, in the majority of the cases genderswap means "everything in previously normal, balanced characters is suddenly about their gender". Which is irritating, yes.

This brought up some interesting thoughts for me. When gender swaps occur in pro media - especially visual media where it's easier to make gender apparent without overtly calling attention to it - I love, love, love it when it isn't commented upon at all and we get so see how gender need not be considered a personality trait or even necessarily relevant. At the same time, if someone does that kind of thing in fic, I just wind up thinking "What was the point of that? Why did you even bother? You just wrote the same character and tweaked the name a bit."

While I agree that making gender-swapped characters all about their gender is annoying and cringe-worthy, I suppose I find gender-swap fic that avoids exploring gender at all to be dull. I guess this is why, save a few rare exceptions - I'm not really into gender-swap?

[(Anonymous)]

There is something to be said for how growing up being socialized as the other gender may affect their clothing/appearance choices.

[(Anonymous)]

AGREED.

[galerian-ash.livejournal.com]

Not into genderswap, but this reminds of an old FF7 doujinshi I have... All the characters kept their original clothes, which was hilarious (especially beefcake-Tifa).

[bored_bitch]

I find it odd that you chose Toy Story for an example, because the clothes that the toys wear are determined by their manufacturer.
So female Woody wouldn't have to like wearing miniskirts and midriff tops just because they're on her.

And I think this would be better on a case-by-case basis. A more insecure or more traditional genderswap would probably wear something stereotypically associated with their gender, but someone who's all "RAH RAH. FUCK SOCIETY." probably wouldn't. And in other cases, it could be anyone's guess.

[ketita]

haha, I get you. I think genderswap is a really cool concept, but most people just sex it up, at least in fanart. It's kind of disappointing.

[(Anonymous)]

What I think is most hilarious about this pic is that there is an actual sort-of canon "female Woody", and she looks nothing like this XD

[quietdragon]

Yeah, I prefer genderswapped/sex-swapped characters to dress similarly to their original selves. Maybe I could understand it if it's like an AU situation: if the character had always been the opposite gender, maybe a hypermasculine man would have been a hyperfeminine woman instead!

I've seen some people try to justify it by claiming the whole point of the fanart is the character being a member of the opposite sex to the original, so the fanart will highlight it to make sure it's obvious, and more practical men's clothes would conceal it too much, but it's not an argument that holds much water.

Maybe if more of these were drawn with the intent of speculating what the character might be like as the opposite sex, rather than for titillation purposes, we would see different results.

[(Anonymous)]

I just think it's weird. Don't we have enough chainmail bikinis without doing it to the dudes, too?

On the other hand, since it is usually done for kink factor, I can't totally judge them on the utility of the clothing.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree.
And yet... the first reaction I had to the Toy Story characters was: "Oh gee, the artist probably got a bunch of whiny comments about THEM FUGLY MEN FACES so they tried to cope a bit" ^^#

Even if the male counterpart has a super deformed face, somehow you HAVE to make the fem version a flawless animu face or else angry fanboys might jump at you.

I have had similar experiences in the Friendship is Magic fandom. Only there it's not so much about gender swaps but about humanizations. Somehow the zebra character and to some degree the main pony character are allowed to be Black, the rest have to be White or Asian (but with Asian they really mean Japanese).
Oh, and how dare you draw the hard-working farm pony NOT in a revealing fetish cowgirl dress and the sugar-inhaling cake-o-holic as a chubby person. They have to be thin with nice asses and boobs or else you'll get dogpiled.

[republicanism]

but when people genderswap fanart they usually want to design new outfits for them, too. new character design is part of the fun.

on that note damn cloud scuse me can i objectify you for a minute?

[(Anonymous)]

I hadn't given it much thought (shows you how internalized all of this is, huh?) but now that you mention it, making a female version of a male character all overly sexified *is* very annoying. Especially since the reverse isn't likely to be true, unless the female canon character was always made to look very sexy, but then the sexy male version will be made a bit of a joke.

[(Anonymous)]

Rule #63 was not created with women in mind. It was originally about getting men more wank fodder. Some of those men are TF fetishists, some just can't get enough tits. Either way, non-sexist genderbends are a pretty recent thing.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed. And I'd like to add that I find it odd whenever Rule 63 characters have suddenly a different body type - when tall and lanky man becomes petite busty girl. Women come in all shapes and sizes!

[(Anonymous)]

...Welcome to sexism. This is how almost all female characters are treated from the get-go, and it's goddamn ridiculous. So while it's frustrating to see genderbent characters treated this way, guess what? That's how women are almost always treated. It's not just a fucking genderswap problem. It's a problem women, and society, has as a whole.

[(Anonymous)]

I love the outfit-redesign aspect of R63, and MTF R63 is a huge kink of mine, but it bugs me how often it's just played for random T&A. Fanservice is fine (see also: MTF R63 is a huge kink of mine), but it has to be in keeping with the character or I just can't stand it.

[(Anonymous)]

Those look like the "sexy Halloween costume" versions of the characters.

[ariakas]

Yeeeep. I loathe most genderswap pics for precisely this reason.

Even better! When they're randomly put in stripper clothing and aged down a decade or several! Because, ew, ladies over 30 are gross, amirite?

[ryttu3k]

Yeah, agreed. I'm in the Zelda fandom, and I cannot count how many Links I've seen who are suddenly wearing navel-plunging cleavage-bearing tunics and heels. Because those are SO practical for temple-clearing and sword-fighting...

This blog has some pretty awesome stuff, incidentally.

[sensualcoco.livejournal.com]

Well I kind of had to with Star Trek since their women's uniforms were mini dresses. And if I changed their uniforms, does that imply the women of the series are less respectable because they're wearing less clothing? I like to think in the future we're beyond that. *wishful thinking*

Basically some situations it makes sense and other's it doesn't, as long as it's true to character.

[iggy]

Yeah this is a big pet peeve of mine.

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

I guess it's one thing I have to be grateful for the fandom I'm in at the moment, genderswap stuff tends to not have miniskirts simply because they don't exist in canon.

Just so you know? The Hobbit.

Usually if Bilbo is not wearing a pair of trousers (because that'd be sensible on an adventure, even for a woman), one would presume her dresses conform to the basic type of dresses hobbit women are seen wearing.

Genderswapped Thorin? A bit more chest under her armour, and more often than not, no moustache, though she still has a beard. Fanfic may even have it not immediately apparent (to Bilbo at least) that Thorin is female, because of that little thing about dwarf women looking, sounding and dressing the same as men when travelling.

[(Anonymous)]

Agree!