[ SECRET POST #2496 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2496 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 071 secrets from Secret Submission Post #357.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

10. http://i.imgur.com/0GSDYf0.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

a queer character being the only thing someone knows about a series they've never watched/listened to is not reducing the character to their queerness. it would be if the people who actually watched/listened acted like their was nothing to their personality except it (but that's not the same as trying to draw diversity-minded people in with diversity).

[(Anonymous)]

That's pretty much what's going on in the WtNV fandom, though.

[insanenoodlyguy]

Like anon above me said, this is literally what is happening. You'd think Welcome to NightVale is nothing but a gay romance and Cecil is the worst radio host ever just talking about his boyfriend the way the fandom hears an episode sometimes.

[(Anonymous)]

I was coming here to say something like this, then realized the OP probably intended the story about the friend to be a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. It's not the friend's fault that he or she knows nothing else about WTNV, but the reason that's all he or she knows is because that's all people talk about and the fact that people talk of nothing else is a problem.

[(Anonymous)]

No, no, I totally get what you mean, OP. It's sad when fans (and sometimes even the show itself) take a really interesting character who happens to to be queer and focuses solely on that one aspect-- it makes the characters really flat and boring. For example, since you mention WtNV: There's the weather, the delightful creepy-weirdness and a bunch of other really interesting characters (Old Woman Josie and the Angels, John Peters Y'Know the Farmer, Intern Dana), Kevin and Desert Bluffs... As much as I love the canon gay romance, there's more to it than that, and neglecting everything else sells WtNV so, so short.

Tl;dr This opinion is far from homophobic, OP.

[kaijinscendre]

;_; I understand OP. I hate, hate, hate the fact that like 70% of WTNV art/fic seems to be shipping. Especially when an epsiode has some really horrific qualities. Like the episode that came out yesterday.

SPOILER FOR RECENT EPISODE
The idea of this computer trying to create an Orwellian world because it wants to have this girl love it. That is terrifying. Especially with the implications of Cecil's comments at the end.

[(Anonymous)]

But to be honest, it seems like every fandom is all about shipping. I feel is just particularity egregious in a show like WttNV, the medium is different, very abstract.

[(Anonymous)]

I get kind annoyed with this type of criticism. How do you know that people are "reducing" characters to just one aspect? Sure maybe it's the one thing they talk about most, but that doesn't really mean that they only view the character as that one thing. Like I could go on and on about how awesome Batmans costume was but that doesn't mean I only see him for the costume, it just means I really love talking about the costume while still viewing him as a whole character.

(That analogy sucked but I've got nothing else so I'm sticking with it.)

[kaijinscendre]

No by like OP said, her friend the only thing her friend knew about WTNV was that there was a queer couple. That's it because that is all anyone talks about. That isn't so much reducing a character to being queer, but it is reducing a show (that frankly spends little time on the relationship) to a show about queer characters.

Sort of how many, many people who start watching Teen Wolf because of Tumblr are confused by the fact that Stiles and Derek are NOT in fact the main characters OR in a relationship.

[erinptah]

Yes, this.

Especially when the evidence is "my friend who has never listened to WtNV only knows about detail X." What does the OP expect, that a person who has never actually touched a series should have in-depth knowledge of its characters? Of course they're only going to know one or two simple facts. That has nothing to do with whether people who are actually in the fandom appreciate other things about the show.

[diet_poison]

From my experience in fandom this isn't really a homophobic attitude, in fact, it's the opposite. True representation means having well-rounded characters who happen to be queer, not token queer characters who are there for diversity points and their queerness is so emphasized it can't be seen as ordinary like it should be. (Ordinary of course if there isn't any kind of prejudice in the setting, but even then it would be seen as just part of a character's persona, not all of it.)

Off topic, but . . .

[feotakahari]

Does this mean the gay guy in Archie is good representation? I don't read the comic, but apparently, his major conflict isn't his gayness, it's his desire to be like his father (whom he deeply respects.)

[(Anonymous)]

This is pretty much exactly what I was going to say, thank you for putting it better than I ever could.

[electromouse]

Yeaaah. One of things I like about wtnv is that Cecil being queer is not treated as weird or spectacular. He's just the guy who gives the news on a radio show in his little weird town, and who sometimes shares his personal life on-air on what's going on with his boyfriend. That's it.

[(Anonymous)]

I sorta feel like the fact that people obsess on that still shows that they either see it as either rare (which is no fault of their's but of Hollywood in general) or because there are some out there (SJWs) who zero in on a characters categories above all else. Or they see homosexual relationships as something inherently 'unique'.

I'll never forget seeing a tumblr thing where slash fans were being all gross by making comments about how they love the forbiddenness of gay relationships and how they 'felt sorry' for het shippers because there was nothing "interesting" about their ships (and also confessing to stalking two boys at school because they "shipped" them as if the boys were fictional objects and not..yanno human beings. It reeked of fetishizing and such. Sorta offensive in the way calling a person of a different race 'exotic' would be.


Personally it would be nicer imo , if we could just be like "oh yeah...and there's a same sex relationship" like it's no biggie, because that would mean it is being treated as a common thing.

If this makes any sense. I know the last bit is hella idealistic but *shrug*

[(Anonymous)]

A-FREAKIN'-MEN!

[(Anonymous)]

As someone who has never watched/heard anything about WtNV, I can attest that I know nothing about it except that it involves a gay man called Cecil who may or may not be black. Also that the merchandise is purple.

[(Anonymous)]

Two things:

1. I agree. Tbh, the Nightvale fandom is a large part of what soured me towards the series, though the fact it's something I have to be in a very specific mood for in the first place didn't help.

Anyways, yeah. I do agree it's annoying when fandom tends to focus on "OMG! QUEER!" ...and then mostly ignore the rest of what makes up the character.

2. This isn't really directed at what you're saying, so much as *how* you said that last bit but...Yeah. "Even though I'm bi/gay/whatever" doesn't really mean you can't also be homophobic, sadly. So...-shrugs-

[(Anonymous)]

I feel you, OP. I almost didn't watch Pacific Rim because the only thing I ever heard about it was that two of the main characters were a black man and a Japanese woman. Nobody ever talked about whether it was a good movie or not, whether it was interesting, well written and entertaining (and it IS all of those things), but only about the ~representation~, as if that was the only thing that movie had going for it. As if the only thing these characters had going for them was that they were POC and, for one of them, female.

[(Anonymous)]

As a gay man, I so see this. Fandom has reduced the visibility of the show to this one aspect (this one very interesting and lovable aspect nonetheless) neglecting everything else that also makes WttNV what it is. Even Cecil himself stops existing aside his relationship, and at the end is just all such a waste; we have an amazing premise, an amazing setting. We should celebrate the show as a hole, not just zero in one aspect, regardless how awesome it is.

I'm not saying the show HAS to be enjoyed on certain way, but I do believe fandom should have some sort of accountability and be concerned about representing the source material fairly to give other people the chance of enjoying what we enjoy.

Fandom for all it's wonders, it is still a very self serving construct (and that might even be the point of fandom for a lot of people) I just feel that more of a balance should be achieved.

[(Anonymous)]

I hear you, anon. One of my fandoms is so fucking obsessed with one of the character's (alleged) queerness that they tend to completely forget that his sexuality is so far from being the main point of the character that it might as well be on the other side of the globe.

But then, who cares about the complexities of a character if you can ship them? Which is really all fandom cares about, no matter how much lip service they pay to the other, far more relevant issues the source material is about.

As a queer person, I wish that kind of thing would just stop. I get that fandom is mostly about shipping, but I am not my sexuality. In fact, my sexuality is a minor point to who I am. And I'd love to see more characters who are first and foremost about, for example, how well they're keeping it together during the zombie apocalypse or being a kickass scientist, and somewhere along the line, oh btw they're also bi (yeah, I would also like more bi representation).

[darkmanifest]

Sometimes the only thing I know about - or even like - about a piece of media is that it has a particular actor or theme or aspect. I'll rec something by saying "Norman Reedus is in it being ridiculously complex and badass!" or "And it's got awesome non-stereotypical black characters who aren't all dead by the end!" Probably there's other things I like about it, and sometimes there aren't, but there's always one or two aspects that really stand out for me that I use to sell to other people who might be into those things as much as I am. The worst part for me is that it can be misleading. I got into Torchwood because of Jack and Ianto's relationship, and it really didn't get as much screen time as you'd think it did from the fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

So am I the only one who's had the exact opposite experience? I've not got into listening to WtNV yet (although I've been meaning to start), but I've heard quite a bit about it, and this is literally the first time that I've heard that Cecil's gay and in a relationship with another man.

Maybe it's because I don't use Tumblr, and I get my info on shows and things from other places? Although I am a huge slash fan and hang around slash communities, they've just not had any WtNV stuff yet.

[(Anonymous)]

I do find it kind of telling that WTNV really exploded in popularity around the point where Carlos and Cecil became a canon couple.

i started listening to it really late, and my friend and i joked about the fact that at first it really seems a lot less like a canon gay relationship and a lot more like cecil had a somewhat-creepy crush on this probably-oblivious carlos guy. (which of course is not the case. but I feel like fandom would've read the ~subtext~ as true love no matter what, because that's kind of what the internet does.) i mean, look at the whole episode with the haircut. but seriously- they get together in the one year anniversary episode. one year. there is SO MUCH to night vale that isn't their relationship, i do wish the creepy rest of it got a bit more love.

i'm avoiding the fandom because it all seems to just be a mess of people hating other people because they can't agree on the canon physical description of a character who by design has no canon physical description, and have to back up that disagreement by telling one another they're irredeemably bad people for not agreeing with them.

WTNV is so good, though. Why can't we all be friends? Why can't we all go to the hole in the vacant lot out back of the Ralph's and huddle... together?

/steps off soapbox