[ SECRET POST #2933 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2933 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Lovely Complex]


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03.
[Giada De Laurentiis/John Mayer]


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04.
[Dragon Age 2]


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05.
[John Finnemore's Souvenir Programme]


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06.
[Robert Smith of The Cure]


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07.
[WWE]


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08.
(Agents of Shield)


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09.
[Rookie Blue]


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10.
[Star Trek: The Next Generation]


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11.
[Dragon Age Inquisition]


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12.
[Sailor Moon]


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13.
[Stargate: Atlantis]


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14.
[Pern]












Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #419.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

04. http://oi57.tinypic.com/210yhlg.jpg
[Dragon Age 2]

[silverr]

Really? blech.

(The only way I can possibly see anything like this is if you come at it from the angle that Fenris was a slave for so long that perhaps the structure of an organized religion might appeal to him on some level (except that iirc his personality in DA2 was more of a struggle to break from stricture and repression and obedience, so from that angle it doesn't work at all.)

[(Anonymous)]

He didn't exactly become super devout and drop everything to join the chantry. At most, he told Sebastian that he would think carefully about his feelings about the Maker and then a while later Sebastian caught him praying and Fenris tried to deny it. That was pretty much it

[darkmanifest]

Faith and organized religion aren't the same thing. You're right that Fenris would sneer at being obedient to a Chantry that treats elves like him as second-class citizens at best, but Fenris uses his faith in the Maker, not the Chantry, as a reason to keep going - as he mentions to Anders, it's one of the reasons he didn't kill himself as a slave. He's not and probably never will be like Sebastian, blindly (or remotely) loyal to an institution, but that doesn't mean he can't have faith in the concept of a higher power.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, you already admit in your secret that you think it's irrational to feel the way you do and sometimes we can't help our knee jerk reaction to things, so as long as you don't go around bashing Fenris to other fans for showing interest in religion then I don't see the harm. I really liked their party banter though, and I thought it was sweet when Sebastian tried to help Fenris realize that he wasn't fully accountable for the things that Danarius made him do by telling him that the Maker wouldn't consider it a sin because it was the fault of the person who had him under duress. They had a very understated friendship and I ship them like crazy, ngl

[(Anonymous)]

Never played this but I feel I can relate but in the opposite direction. I can be turned off by characters and fandoms if the media is too overtly anti-religion. I don't mind atheism or agnostic characters or worlds but I dislike when I feel like the media is demeaning believers.

If having or not having a religion is important to you (which is certainly understandable), then it makes sense that you would be turned off or turn to characters that reflect that. If religion is not important, then I guess I can see your confusion but it sounds like you do identify with atheism so this doesn't seem strange at all.

[saku]

fenris finding the maker is really more or less up to the player's interpretation, iirc. theres nothing said through their dialogue that hints fenris is now super religious. sebastian poses thoughts for fenris to chew on, fenris does, he prays at least once at the chantry - and can you blame him for soul searching like this? - and that's the most of what we hear. even after this banter, fenris hints to sebastian that his (sebastian's) path is blind. sebastian is one of few people in da2 that expresses such care for fenris, so it's really no wonder fenris was receptive to him. don't mistake that for fenris following sebastian's religion blindly.

even aside from sebastian's presence though fenris does express some degree of belief. not strong belief but belief nonetheless. in banter with anders, fenris says he never considered suicide as a way out because suicide is a sin according to the maker. sebastian doesn't really turn him any closer to this vague belief, in my opinion. fenris is just fond of his kindness.

[(Anonymous)]

Except that Fenris doesn't become a Chantry brother or anything of the sort. If anything he questions himself and whether the Maker exists. He doesn't claim to believe or disbelieve by the end. If you're questioning your belief in an all mighty diety, you may pray on the off chance that it helps you/comforts you in some way.

There's nothing wrong with that, especially with a fictional character. Especially one that's had such a crappy life as Fenris. He's so damn angry that he may be trying to find peace internally. He may have been trying to give belief in the Maker a shot to help him with that.

So yeah, I think you're being irrational. But thanks for finding such a nice background pic to use. Never have seen that one.

[elaminator]

MTE. I never felt that Fenris was dedicated to the Chantry, just that he left himself open to the idea. Maybe he decided it wasn't for him, but either way I doubt his experiences with religion changed him THAT much.

Maybe I'm not the person to ask though, because I love Leliana and obviously the Chantry is a huge part of her life. I don't agree with everything the Chantry does or believes in (like a lot of real life religions), but that doesn't change my feelings regarding the characters who believe in it.

[(Anonymous)]

That made me like Fenris more, tbh. I

same anon

[(Anonymous)]

That made me like Fenris more, tbh. I see a lot of characters in games losing faith or being disillusioned by it, but I rarely (if ever) see characters finding faith, or being open to the idea. And I never thought it was OOC for Fenris either. He stated in a conversation with another character (I think it was with Anders?) that he wouldn't try to kill himself because that would be a sin against the Maker, or something along those lines. That shows that he had some kind of Andrastian beliefs already.It's not like he was a staunch atheist who ~saw the light~ because of Sebastian.

[miarrow]

TBH, this and the fact that is voice is hot is the only thing I like about Sebastian. It's great that he gets along with Fenris (considering how much they both hate Anders), but I can't see Fenris being super devout to any level, but if finding some peace in religion actually evens him out is that a bad thing? Most of his ambient dialogue with the other companions are about growth anyway and all Sebastian has to offer is the church life.

[caerbannog]

This happens?

:/

Ngl I have never been keen on the chantry, maker and how annoyingly christiany it is. Not a major fan on fenris (although he's growing on me) but that's something id rather avoid playing u_u

[(Anonymous)]

Not really. He does some soul-searching in banter and tries praying at least once. It's not a conversion like OP seems to think.

[(Anonymous)]

WAIT. No one pointed out that Anders is NOT an strident atheist, or an atheist at all? He is anti-Chantry but he believes in the Maker.

[(Anonymous)]

someone posted "But Anders isn't an Atheist. He believes in the Maker, is not strictly against the chant of light, but is against how the chantry enforces their rules and imprisons/mistreates/etc the mages" but they accidentally put it in the wrong section and didn't repost it under the right secret so it's understandable that you didn't see it

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, really? I guess I missed that, then. He seems to be sniping at the Chantry at every available opportunity, so I must have gotten the wrong idea.

Transcript

[(Anonymous)]

Image: line art (fan art) of two male characters, one with light hair and pointed ears, the other with dark hair and normal ears, in fantasy clothing, the human pouring wine from a bottle for the pointy-haired one.

Text: I never got the DLC when I played it before, so I finally played the game with Sebastian in it for the first time.

In their companion conversation, Sebastian basically encourages Fenris to find god, and Fenris basically does.

Fenris’ religiosity has kind of turned me off the character. He used to be my faborite, but now I’m starting to prefer Anders and his strident atheism.

S/B: I’m being an idiot about a fictional (if rather Christiany) religion in a fictional universe in which “the maker” might actually literally exist.

Youngpen-dragon on Deviantart, used w/o permission

[(Anonymous)]

My issue with this whole thing is that Sebastian comes at it from such a place of privilege that I want Fenris to shut him down completely. I hate that Sebastian says things like "maybe you saw that slave boy drained of blood because it would lead you to the Maker" and Fenris responds with anything more than a glowy fist to the nose.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm with you, OP. Though it didn't make me lose interest in Fenris, it just made me hate Sebastian more. eugh. I mean, I suppose a sane and mild mannered "nice" guy was probably the best character to contrast everyone else's insanity, and I don't think anyone else was particularly pro-Chantry (in fact, I can't recall if any of the main cast were even Andrastian). But seriously, Sebastian sucked. Beyond trying to convert Fenris, he also wanted to turn in Hawke's mage companions (to which Fenris hilariously was like "nope I'm so not getting involved in that), and, OH YEAH he always freaking leaves me at the end, even if I've showered him with gifts and got him at 100% friendship, because I refuse to murder my healer. What a dick.

Wait... what were we talking about?

Seriously though. I wasn't happy that Fenris was praying in the Chantry, but I guess it makes sense considering Fenris is trying to find something stable in his life, he values (the concept of) home and family, and he's been through so much shit it's not particularly surprising that he might want to search for spiritual answers as well. Plus he'd be down with their stance on mages.

[(Anonymous)]

Aside from the fact that I agree with other people that Fenris suddenly turning into a devout Andrastian is a matter of interpretation (and I, personall, never saw it that way): Would you have the same problem with Fenris embracing the Dalish religion?
Or is it because you have this internalised hipstery "Christianity is so bad and anyone even remotely faithful must be an idiot, only atheism is cool" while somehow tolerating/accepting/praising all other religions?

[(Anonymous)]

Fenris also takes comfort in some aspects of the Qun, which has no less horrific baggage than the Chantry does.

He's someone with a lot of trauma, no recollection of most of his life, and an identity that hinges largely on external factors because he doesn't have a lot of internal foundation until fairly late in the game. He looks for meaning and comfort and guideposts where he can find it, and yeah, religion is one of the places he looks. It happens in the vanilla game, too, having Sebastian means that the conversations are just in the forefront, rather than mostly being implied by other things he says.

He doesn't ever join the Chantry, he just investigates it as a possibility because it's something that seems to give a lot of other people meaning and purpose, and that's something he craves.

[(Anonymous)]

Sounds stupid. You have stupid hang ups.

[(Anonymous)]

And here I was hoping Fenris and Sebastian would bang or something

[(Anonymous)]

Er ... this isn't the main point of this secret, but Anders isn't an atheist. Like, at all. He doesn't like the Chantry as a power structure and he's a jerk to people he sees as "too" religious (for obvious Circle-related reasons), but he believes in the Maker pretty firmly. Read his pre-DA2 short story or the "mage manifesto" on Wounded Coast in DAI, which most fans believe is meant to be Anders' writing: In both, he refers to magic as a gift of the Maker and talks about the Andraste legend as something that's very real to him. He does the same thing when he's talking to Sebastian.

I think the only actual atheist companion is Morrigan.