[ SECRET POST #2950 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2950 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 065 secrets from Secret Submission Post #422.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

I asked this yesterday but I didn't get any great answers so I'm asking it again.

It's generally and rightly accepted in these conversations that it's improper for men to assume that they can understand the lived experiences of women, that the better thing to do is to listen to what women have to say about those experiences. How then has everyone apparently decided that they're totally competent to make judgments about something that's pretty much an experience that's kind of specific to men? Doesn't the same logic apply here?

And just to be clear, I don't really care about the manspreading thing itself, and I don't think this is some massive injustice or anything like that. I'm honestly just curious why there seems to be this difference.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[insanenoodlyguy]

Hypocritical double standards. Anybody can have them!

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

Bullshit.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[insanenoodlyguy]

Really? That's the response your going to give? You realize how vague my statement was? I'd challange you to find any person on earth that doesn't have at least once of these about something. Do you just really believe that only women can have thoughts about the other gender neo rad!fem anon, or do you just dislike me and my presumed penis so much that I cannot possibly be right?

I'm glad your back, or if new, as active as you are. You were missed.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

It's bullshit that THIS scenario, the scenario you were commenting on, is an example of hypocritical double standards.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[insanenoodlyguy]

Unless it isn't.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

Explain? What judgements are women making about about men? that they take up more space than they need? because they clearly do. I don't know why you're trying to defend these dudes?

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

The judgment of how much space a person physically needs to take.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

We can see men in various situations all through viewable time sitting like courteous human beings. That men are able to take up a decent amount of space is not some arbitrary judgement. it is provable.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

Different men have different bodies.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

Not drastically different, no.

Gonna have to switch sides here

[insanenoodlyguy]

For all the fun I've had needling what I presume is that one anon, Manspreading isn't actually a fake thing. Though I wonder if some of these guys do it for the same reason the ladies put bags next to them. What if this guy has social anxiety about sitting next to others? What if this is his way of avoiding a panic attack an- yeah okay it's possible but probably not.



The real crime here is that hat though.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't have any interest in doing so, but I think it would be really easy to construct some really absurd conclusions that follow the same logic.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

The best answer I can come up with is that women, from a very early age, are shown the male perspective far more than men get a woman's perspective.

For example, I think you'll find that the average woman on the street knows that men watch porn and that a lot of men like lesbian porn in particular.

But few men (comparatively) seem to realize that things like kink memes exist or that women like slash (the number of men on imgur.com, for instance, that are SHOCKED when I mention that lots of women think man-on-man sex is hot is staggering).

Junot Diaz, for example, once said that most women can write a pretty decent male character. While a lot of men struggle to write a passable female character.

I do think society is changing and that's why it's frustrating for a lot of men to have these discussions, but I do think that, historically, the view of men as "the default" has given women much greater insight into the life of the average man than men have ever had of women.

Hope that makes some sense.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you for your answer.

The problem that I have with this argument is that, by this logic, there is some amount of time of paying attention to women etc where a man could have the ability to comment authoritatively on these kinds of things. And that doesn't seem like an argument that's either valid, or likely to be accepted by many people.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

You just Sea-lioned someone? fucking low.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't understand what that means.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

Bullshit politeness so that you can be a bully without getting called on it.

In this case, asking a "reasonable" question with no intention of taking the answer to heart.

"I don't understand why women have a problem with XXX"
"*Is given answer*"
"No you're wrong"

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[insanenoodlyguy]

You had a great run, but now you over-reached. I'm dissapointed.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think it would be accepted because it still wouldn't be the same in a lot of ways. Such a man would have to deliberately seek out women's experiences whereas for a lot of women, it's basically a "submersion" into men's world that we don't get to choose.

I guess the best example would be that if you're looking for female discussion on the internet, as a man, you'd have to seek out places that are known to be female-dominated (such as fan fiction).

But if you go almost anywhere on the internet, such as a generic news site or something, the assumption made by posters is still that you're a male. That's been my experience, at least, that everyone will default to thinking you're male.

So while you can gain insight into a woman's perspective by observing their spaces, I think it's very different than trying to navigate a female-dominated world.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

That's a very interesting point, and I definitely agree that there is an imbalance in those terms, and that the broader world at large is constructed around male dominance.

I'm still not sure whether it goes to the heart of the argument, though. Because it feels like the argument on the side of women - at least in my experience - is not about statistical averages; it's about something intrinsic to the genders.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

Ehhhh... I'd say that women are shown A male perspective, not THE male perspective. And that perspective is sharply limited and does not reflect the lived experiences of a majority of men.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

Not all men, certainly.

But I do think men's stories dominate a good deal. And so women get a pretty decent cross-section of what male-ness means.

Women's stories are rarer and they're more stringent in some ways. I remember, for example, when Pixar was FINALLY going to have female protagonist be their main star in a film, I was happy. But then it turned into yet another "princess has to get married but doesn't want to -- with a twist!" story. And I felt really let down because that's been done SO. MANY. TIMES.

Compare that to the richness and diversity of male protagonists (even if they are non-human) and it's depressing.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[diet_poison]

I think this is true to an extent. Anon who also replied has a point but so do you.

What we do see is a broad range of experiences that apply to (white) cis straight men, imo. And of course we do get fed a lot of bullshit about what a ~~real~~ man's experience is like, but men get fed that shit too and that exists on the female side as well.

Re: Fuck you Fandom secrets.

[ketita]

Because in this case women can look around and see the BILLIONS OF MEN who have no problem sitting with their legs together or cross-legged, and so the argument that men ~need the space~ is spurious.

If men make an argument about their personal experiences which cannot be easily disproved by the existence of everything ever, it should be taken seriously.

In addition, this is a bad example because it is about something physically provable. It's not about emotional experiences etc.