[ SECRET POST #3154 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3154 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 050 secrets from Secret Submission Post #451.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

Both race and gender are social constructs.

If you support transgender people then why should people who want to change their race not be supported?

I don't have any issue with transgender people.

But if someone wants to be Asian, white, black, latino…what business is it of mine if that's how they want to live their life?

Live and let live.

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

I found myself conflicted by this when that NAACP woman was outed for being white. My kneejerk reaction, like everyone, was "How dare she?" And then after a while it dawned on me.... I'm trans.... and I still don't know what to think about this.

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

I mostly agree. Sure, it's not the same as growing up in that culture, but adult immigrants adopt new nationalities all the time.

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

Nationality is not the same as ethnicity.

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

Ethnicity is still a social construct though.

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

It's a different social construct.

Just saying something is a social construct doesn't mean you can just ignore it. Our attitude towards and understanding of trans* issues comes out of a certain understanding of the way in which gender is socially constructed and its relationship with the biologically given sex.

But you have to actually engage with the thing, you can't just say "it's socially constructed."

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

I would say race is to sex as cultural identity is to gender.

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

Sex has a basis in biology. Animals have sexes for example.

Race doesn't.

There's more biological diversity in terms of genetics in Africa alone compared to the rest of the world.

And black Americans are more genetically related to white Americans than black Africans.

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

Race does have basis in biology, but not the way you're using the word.

Not all places define "race" the same way. Tell Japanese and Filipino that they're the same "race" because they're "Asian/Pacific Islander" through a Western lens, and you're gonna get some weird looks from both. And neither are going to agree with you.

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

Well, no, you're going to get some weird looks from the Japanese, because they're racists, but the Filipinos are going to agree that they're Asian.

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

That's my point though -- because race can be defined in different ways, it's clearly a social construct. And even though there does tend to be some biological basis, it's not 100% (for example, although most black people have dark skin, that's not true of everyone who is black).

And thus, on what grounds do we have the right to say to someone that they can't change their race while at the same time we support someone who is transitioning from one gender to another?

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

While there is evidence leaning towards transgenderism (?) being the result of a brain-body map mismatch, there is no such body map re: race. Ergo, being transgender should be supported, as there is actual scientific evidence for how it works, and none of that would work re: different races.

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/imp/jcs/2008/00000015/00000001/art00001

http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(07)00181-8/abstract?cc=y=

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7477289

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18980961

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.5.6564

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22891037

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22364652

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19341803

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

Gender is a social construct. It's not biological.

Women aren't INHERENTLY better caretakers or more emotional -- that's social conditioning.

Similarly, men aren't inherently more stoic or logical.

Gender constructs have often emphasized this but there's no biological basis.

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

gender roles are constructs, gender is not

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

So what are you saying then?

That men ARE inherently more logical? That women ARE inherently more nurturing and emotional?

And that's why we have gender roles -- because of course the more "naturally nurturing" women should be caretakers?

Because that's the only conclusion I can come to from what you're saying, correct me if I'm wrong.

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Gender is a social construct, sex is not, it's biological. For example, a transman needs to see a gynecologist for their overall health while they still possess the organs of a particular sex, though that sex doesn't match their gender identity.

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

I disagree gender is a social construct, your identity is a part of you from the moment you're born.

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

I know that's the mantra, but I find it annoying. Since when has gender meant "society's stereotypes of sex"? I'm a woman, who doesn't want kids, who does martial arts, who plays video games all night, who dresses like a "tomboy". Does that mean my gender isn't woman? No, of course not, I'm a woman, I'm feminine inherently because I identify as a woman. Gender is not stereotypes. It's an identity independent of "social construct". (and yes, I absolutely believe a trans person can have a certain gender identity, but I still don't see what that has to do with "social constructs")

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

thank you

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I could see a case being made in terms of dysphoria or dysmorphia. "A person who desperately hates their physical features and is convinced they should look physically different" isn't anything new as far as psychology goes.

This isn't to say that the idea of being trans racial should be fully accepted as an identity, but I think a person who is, or genuinely believes they are, dysphoric or dysmorphic about their body in racial terms, could easily exist. What factors lead to it is up for debate, like you said.

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

Leaving aside whether it's truly fair, a large part if why people view these differently is that changing you gender identity (especially if it involves surgery) is seen as far more drastic than claiming a different racial identity (especially if it does not involve surgery), so it's easier for people to accept that trans people are coming fom a place of real need, the need to not be the gender they were assigned at birth or have the body they were born with, while people wanting to change their race will be met with more suspicion. Given the "if you're not oppressed, you're the oppressor" talk we see online sometimes or the fact that some people feel any opportunity or benefit open only to certain groups that they don't belong to is horribly unfair and oppresive, even if they are more privelaged to start with, it can be easy to see why claiming a new racial identity could be done for the wrong reasons and lead peope to question if right reasons even exist. (Yes, there are probably people on tumblr convincing themselves they are trans because they want attention, but how far are they going to go with that?)

Can something simiar to the dysmorphia experienced by trans people exist for those who want to change their race? Maybe. That's something to study.

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[diet_poison]

Does anyone actually have racial dysphoria? Is there a biological basis for saying you feel like you should be a different race? That doesn't square up, to me.

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

But gender's a social construct so you can't have a biological basis for feeling like a different gender.

That doesn't make trans people's rights any less, of course.

Plus I think racial dysphoria can be a thing, especially among mixed children who heavily favor the looks of one parent but may identify more with the other.

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

except for all the biological basis we have for trans people's brains being mapped differently than the gender they were assigned...? if that's not biological basis, what is?

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[(Anonymous)]

I could easily see it for someone who is of one race but was raised in a family of a different race.