[ SECRET POST #3277 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3277 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.
[Leonardo DiCaprio]



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02.
[John Barrowman]


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03.
[Jurassic Park III, Alan/Billy]


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04.


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05.


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06.


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07.


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08.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 018 secrets from Secret Submission Post #468.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

07. http://i.imgur.com/PztOAKg.png

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed.

[ariakas]

You mean that's not what it's about?

[(Anonymous)]

I get where you're coming from. It doesn't bug me personally because a lot of adult anime characters look like children or teenagers anyway (and a lot of teenage and pre-teen anime characters look like adults). Half the time when I'm watching anime or reading manga I have no freakin' clue how old anyone is until it's explicitly stated.

Shipping live-action kids with adults is where I draw the line, though.

[(Anonymous)]

Shipping live-action kids with adults is where I draw the line

hell I'm against shipping live-action kids with other kids and I love shota

[kallanda_lee]

I agree, but I also understand that culturally anything potentially related to child porn is something people have Really Strong Feelings about, so it's not something where I assume that most people I meet will have similar opinions about it.

[(Anonymous)]

That's kind of why I hate discussing those types of subjects because people get so emotional about it they can't see reason all they can see it "RARGH IF YOU'RE ANYTHING BUT TOTALLY AGAINST THIS YOU ARE AN EVIL APOLOGIST AND SHOULD GO DIAF"

And you just can't have any kind of discourse with people like that. Or people who have already decided they're going to judge you if you think anything but their exact stance.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm kind of uncomfortable with the line of argument in the first paragraph, in the sense that... I mean, yes, obviously there's a difference between the idealized version and the reality, but it still is an idealization of that thing. That's the whole point.

The second one is trickier ground - why are some idealizations of bad things allowable, and others not? I would say perhaps the reason is because, like, pedophilia is so completely and totally wrong and unjustifiable. There are just no circumstances where it's okay. That mode of attraction is always, always wrong. But I think the answer there needs work.

[(Anonymous)]

how do you feel about rape or incest kinks then? they're very popular (iirc 1 out of 3 people have a noncon/rape kink), but are morally wrong by current us standards at least.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm kind of uncomfortable with the line of argument in the first paragraph, in the sense that... I mean, yes, obviously there's a difference between the idealized version and the reality, but it still is an idealization of that thing. That's the whole point.

We idealize tons of shit that we wouldn't want to do/wouldn't want done to us in reality though. That's kind of the nature of like half the fantasies people have. That's the entire point of the argument. So far you really sound like one of those "well it's just bad BECAUSE, ew gross" type people. And yet there are plenty of people who think games like God Of War or whatever are absolutely disgusting and yet I don't see people branding people who enjoy the game as sadists and killers.

The second one is trickier ground - why are some idealizations of bad things allowable, and others not? I would say perhaps the reason is because, like, pedophilia is so completely and totally wrong and unjustifiable. There are just no circumstances where it's okay. That mode of attraction is always, always wrong. But I think the answer there needs work.

...Your second argument makes absolutely no sense. Are you trying to tell me that there is a time when blowing up hookers and disemboweling people is okay? The point is that both things are utterly wrong when brought into reality, and yet we'll gleefully rip the guts out of someone in Mortal Kombat or blow off people's heads in GTA and no one calls us serial killers or pyschopaths, but the moment someone mentions they think Medoka/Homura is cute/sexy we brand them a pedophile. Why? It all sounds very hypocritical to me and kind of dumb that we think hyper-violence can be handled maturely and loli/shota can't.

[feotakahari]

I think the difference is that there's more you can do with violence from an artistic standpoint. There are a lot more stories like A History of Violence than like Lolita, and something that throws straight-up loli fanservice into an otherwise serious narrative should be mocked for the same reason "cool" gratuitous violence in an otherwise serious narrative should be mocked.

[erinptah]

there's more you can do with violence from an artistic standpoint

Mmm, not buying this. I can believe society (or at least the US) has hangups about sex that we don't necessarily have about violence, so we approach them differently in stories...but I don't think one is inherently more exploitative/less artistic.


something that throws straight-up loli fanservice into an otherwise serious narrative should be mocked for the same reason "cool" gratuitous violence in an otherwise serious narrative should be mocked

This, I am down with. No double standard, just criticizing skeevy and gratuitous writing for being skeevy and gratuitous.

I think OP's point is that not all fiction is supposed to be serious and morally realistic in the first place. You wouldn't want every mainstream anime to include shotacon fanservice, but that doesn't mean Kuroshitsuji shouldn't exist at all, or that people should be scorned for liking it.

...plus, some of the cries of "pedophilia!" in fandom have gone waaaaaaay farther than that. Like, there's "straight-up loli fanservice," and then there's "drawing a teenage character in average beachwear."

[(Anonymous)]

I think there is also too much gratuitous violence in our society, and I think that playing very graphic games is probably not really the best thing, whether it's violence or sexual.

So there.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I want to state that I personally am not into shota/loli. I guess the closest would be finding Sebastian/Ciel interesting as a dynamic? I'm not burning up AO3 reading sex fics or anything about them though.

Oddly enough the reason I decided to write this secret is because of shota. It surprised the hell out of me how many women are into it. Four of my anime loving friends are totally into it, and a couple of them like loli too. They're all in their mid twenties, upwardly mobile, two are single, one is married, and the other has a girlfriend. I know them all personally too, and they're very much of the "kids in real life are gross" stance, which I find a lot of people into this genre seem to feel. I started looking into it all more and I realized just how grey this whole issue is.

I just feel the whole "shaming" of people who like this, or who shout "PEDO!!"...it's kind of bullshit. One of the creators of Stephen Universe was caught when someone realized she used to draw explicit Ed, Edd and Eddy artwork in her early twenties. I think there needs to be a discussion on why shota/loli or underage cartoon depictions appeal to some people without shaming them immediately as pedophiles. Do I really think the girl who helped create Stephen universe is a secret pedophile? Not at all.

If I had to take a guess, combined with what my friends and people who have kindly taken the time to speak with me have told me, it's kind of an offshoot of "moe" culture. They enjoy the overt cuteness of the characters, many people also have a "pureness" kink going on where they enjoy seeing someone being "taught the ropes" or "shown pleasure for the first time"...I don't know, I actually find all this to be an interesting conversation, and I think I do in part because I don't find the people who enjoy underage characters to be monsters.

[(Anonymous)]

i agree completely, tbh.

[(Anonymous)]

So what if they're shamed? People are shamed for liking different things. I've been in fandoms where I've been given blasts of shit from SJW types because my favorite characters are the antagonists or villains instead of the "acceptable" ones. If I have to deal with being accused of being a megalomaniac or sociopath because I like Character A instead of the "hero," people who get off on reading material with kids fucking can be called pedos.

Don't open your mouth about your preferences if you can't take the heat.

[(Anonymous)]

For me the difference is how the material could be used. A work in which a boy is eager to learn about sex or a girl is eager to seduce her "oniichan" could be shown to a young teen to get them to think that this is normal and that they should also want to have sex with someone older. Whereas everyone knows that murder is wrong and seeing someone murder someone else in a show or movie is unlikely to be able to convince someone to murder in real life.

With that being said, I also think there is too much violence in media aimed at young people, so take that as you will.

[(Anonymous)]

When I was a kid I used to ship young characters with adults because I had a crush on the older character and used the younger as a self-insert.

Though yeah. I'm not one to think what you ship reflects real life preferences in a lot of cases. Most shippers I've seen of age difference couples are teenage girls, not 40 year old pedophiles.

[(Anonymous)]

I have a bias with this. When girls like shota, I don´t mind. But when men like lolis, I feel very uncomfortable. Women and men can be rapists and pedos, but in general, men are more prone in real life to abuse young girls (and boys).

Besides, women usually like to ship a couple, they like the shota with an older guy, they don´t want to be with the shota themselves, they just enjoy the ship. Whereas men would like to fuck the loli and that creeps me a lot.

[(Anonymous)]

Is it OK if I think both are gross and normalizing and fetishizing bad stuff? Because I do. :/

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, yes they are and they deserve to die painfully and slowly.

[(Anonymous)]

I still think it's gross and I'd judge the hell out of anyone for liking it.
Sorry not sorry.

[(Anonymous)]

In theory I could understand this but pretty much all the shota/lolicon people I've interacted with have been fucking creepy.

[sachiko_san]

Wow, a lot of people in this thread don't seem to remember the phrase "wanting to be the little girl."

[(Anonymous)]

The way I see it, if you truly and honestly believe enjoying fictional underage stuff makes someone a pedo, you should be treating that shit like when people post videos of themselves killing animals. You should find out all you can, go to the police, do all you can to protect real children from a real pedo.

If all you do is troll and harass them and scream at them about how Shrelock/John is pedophilia, not like John/Sherlock which is fine then you don't think they're a pedo, you never thought they were a pedo. You're just a whiny butthurt troll who knows screaming the P word gets attention.