[ SECRET POST #3335 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3335 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.
(Red Dead Redemption, The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt)


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02. [repeat]


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03.
[Star Trek: The Next Generation]


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04.
[One Direction, "What Makes You Beautiful"]


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05.


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06.
[Hanayome wa Motodanshi]


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07.
[Driver: San Francisco, Jun and Ayumu]


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08.
[Naruto]


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09.


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10.
[Ash Ketchum/Professor Oak]


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11.

















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 070 secrets from Secret Submission Post #477.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

09. http://i.imgur.com/yx13AYe.png

Transcript by OP

[fscom]

I hope the Jedi are still chaste in canon. I really like the whole idea of “Phenomenal Cosmic Power, Itty Bitty Living Space” You can use the light side of the Force, or you can have sex and romance. You can’t have both. It’s just way too Mary Sue to throw the entire code out. Sure, drink, screw, gamble, kill whoever, as long as you’re a Good Person it doesn’t matter. Anakin was a Bad Person, that’s why loving Shimi and Padme made him fall. But everyone else can do whatever, no rules and no consequences. Unlimited Power! No drawbacks! No sacrifice!
Secret because, have you seen fandom? Mara Jade needs to be canon and have Luke’s babies. Obi-Wan and Satine having babies together needs to be canon. Kanan and Hera need to be canon and have babies together. Ezra and Leia need to have sex and also he needs to be Ben’s real dad. Fandom can do whatever it wants, I’d never want people to stop shipping in fanon. But keep the canon flaws. I’m hoping them casting another female lead in VIII means she’ll be the love interest and Rey is going to be a Jedi. Also, I do not think Rey is a Mary Sue! I just can’t think of a better term for a character getting to have their cake and eat it too.

[philstar22]

Eh. I always interpreted it as the Jedi gradually forgetting the distinction between healthy, balanced attachment and deciding just to throw it all out because of the risks. The Jedi didn't really help Anakin at all. Not that he didn't do horrible things. But telling someone who was old enough to love his mother just to forget about her and give up his attachments wasn't helpful, especially with not telling him how. Instead they should have been teaching him how to love someone without being obsessed. They clearly just didn't know how to deal with him.

And I think the ending of ROTJ speaks to that. Because in the end it was Anakin's son refusing to kill him and the Emperor being about to kill him that turned Anakin back to the light. So just like his unhealthy attachment was a large part of turning him dark, it was his attachment to his son that turned him back to the light.

[(Anonymous)]

Except love was never the issue. Attachment is. Anakin's love for Luke brought him back to the light. Anakin's dark actions weren't because he loved his mother and Padmé but because he was attached to them and feared to lose them. That's why Anakin choked Padmé: because he didn't turn out of love for her, he turned because he didn't want to lose her and when he thought she'd betrayed him, it felt like that fear was coming true.

"Attachment is forbidden. Possession is forbidden. Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is essential to a Jedi's life.

I do, however, agree with you that the fandom is way too obsessed with pairing the characters off.

[(Anonymous)]

I... that point of view really doesn't make any sense to me, at all. I'm not quite able to pinpoint why but I guess I'd say: just because they're allowed to fuck doesn't mean that they can do whatever they want, no consequences. They still have all of the same moral questions and difficulties as any other human being or fictional character. Including one with magical powers. The idea that, for them to have drawbacks and sacrifices, it has to happen in this specific way is... ridiculous.

I mean Christ some pretty bad shit seems to have happened to Luke and there's no indication it had anything to do with him fucking or not fucking.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I like it because of the idea that serving a higher power comes with personal sacrifices. They're space-monks. They live in a temple! I mean yes real life nuns and monks and other very strict religious groups do run into problems and have their drawbacks, but I can't think of many other big franchises that have that sort of thing for main characters.

Sex is just such a huge part of media, can you really not imagine a universe where people would willingly give it up to follow a higher calling?

[(Anonymous)]

In a Galaxy far-far-away you have many teal deer.

[kallanda_lee]

I can see why it would appeal to you, but i always took it that The Jedi order as it existed during Anakin's youth =/= the whole history of Jedi. I adored Tales of the Jedi, and yeah I know EU is thrown out now, but I loved those early Jedi.

In that sense I see it sort of like earth history. There have been many religions is different times and places, and they sort of all chose to worship in their own way. So at this time the Jedi were chaste...but, doesn't mean future Jedi will follow that path.

[gobbledigook]

I like it because gratuitous heterosexual romance is one of my least favorite things in media. Also I always approach badass female characters in Star Wars with skepticism if being in love with a prominent male character is part of their story.

I think Kanan and Hera will be canon though, for several reasons. Too bad.

[(Anonymous)]

I really really hope not with Kanan and Hera. The past few episodes he's been a huge jerk to her. So I'm really hoping they're moving away from pairing them together and not getting into 'slap slap kiss kiss'

*gag*

[(Anonymous)]

I disagree. Celibate Jedi make no sense given the rest of the setting.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think chastity was ever the issue so much as impartiality. 'Needs of the many', that sort of thing. The Jedi were aiming to love everyone equally, and to love no one thing enough to choose it over and to the detriment of everything else. That way, they could be relied on to channel the Force and make decisions that would benefit everyone, or at least the most people possible for any given situation, without personal attachment or bias. It became an issue of chastity because sex and romance, personal love between two/more people, creates an attachment that it's very difficult to be impartial about. It takes a particular sort of personality to be able to personally and passionately love somebody and still be able to sacrifice them if it becomes necessary for the overall good (*cough*Obi-wan*cough*), and rather than trying to winnow for those personalities it became easier over time for the organisation the Jedi had become to just forbid personal attachment in general. It was never that sex or romance were evil in and of themselves, it was just that most people wouldn't be able to have them and still be able to make the gutwrenching impartial decisions when it came to it, so it was easier to blanket-ban them and call it good.

Of course, there's any number of problems with large organisations with that kind of power running on those kind of generalisations. A life without attachment is a difficult ideal to achieve, and I rather suspect that a very large portion of the Jedi actually didn't. Whether it was people they got attached to, a-la Anakin, or the traditions themselves to the exclusion of case-by-case judgement, a-la a lot of the Council, I think quite a lot of them failed to realise their own attachments until they blew up rather spectacularly and in galaxy-wide fashion in their faces. Just banning attachment doesn't really help anyone to avoid it, especially if over time people just get caught up in the letter of the rules and forget what those rules were supposed to be aiming for in the first place.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm hoping they're casting another female because they want to add interesting characters beyond being the love interest for an existing character.

[ninety6tears]

I...TOTALLY see where you're coming from, I just don't completely agree. Like, I pretty much feel this way about the "all Vulcans live with a rigorous discipline over their emotions--except the ones that we're supposed to like" thing that Star Trek does sometimes and how any code of chastity and/or control over attachments gets inevitably betrayed by the writing across different examples in fiction, only sometimes with the right nuance of not denying that feelings are persistent and beyond our control but it's just the way that one reacts to them that is exceptionally controlled within this culture...I'm rambling but the point is it's a sex-obsessed or romance-obsessed thing that is evident there when there aren't many examples of writers deciding there are other ways of making that character interesting than to challenge their ability to adhere to something that, if it were real, would be an important aspect of a culture or commitment.

And it's easy to overlook that maintaining this control is very important for the Jedi because they have a lot of power...but I think and hope the point there is that without an allowance of emotion they have no real idea how to keep those emotions in check, and since Anakin was discouraged in that and it was this absolute taboo and he was treated so poorly his entire life, he became obsessive about what little joys he had, and as he was made to feel more and more like they were wrong they turned into very negative forces over his priorities. Luke was sort of revolutionizing what it means to be a Jedi when he allowed, against the advice of his mentors, for his emotions to have sway over his decisions, and kind of remained in the light by taking the path he could live with even when he remained capable (I think) of not completely losing the plot over his attachments. So I would really hope the new trilogy addresses that the Jedi have never quite worked out a universal code for that but that the way things were when Anakin was trained was corrupt and gave him the wrong support for managing his power. And I'd be completely fine with the implication that Obi-Wan or Luke never did really have romantic attachments because it wouldn't eclipse that point.

[eyeshine72]

I'm okay with some Jedi having sex and romance, like the different eras having different attitudes about it. But for some reason when I heard that Obi-Wan had a love interest, I was like "No."

[ibbity]

I admit that part of my wish for this not to be the case is exactly what you said, which is that Luke/Mara is one of my favorite fictional pairings ever. But I think that the idea of complete repression of all desires for love and sex is hardly a healthy one if it's imposed from outside, and it's difficult to tell whether it's truly what you want or not if you've been raised from childhood to believe that This Is How It Must Be Or Else. There is a significant difference between voluntary monasticism, or devotion to a cause/lifestyle at the expense of certain other parts of life, and enforced involuntary sacrifice of those parts of life.

I wouldn't say no to the idea that some or even many Jedi choose a life of celibacy for the sake of focusing more on their calling, but I don't think that forcing it on them (especially those who come to it later in life) is the kind of thing that will give rise to a healthy emotional state. I also can't see Luke as the kind of person who would ever force or manipulate others the way the Jedi Council from the prequels does, so I can't see him going around telling all the Force-sensitive people he finds on his "restore the Jedi" travels "You aren't allowed to get married or have children or fall in love because I'm the Jedi Master and I said so." I can see him explaining to them how celibacy might help them as Jedi and leaving it up to them to choose, but I can't see him descending with wrath on anyone who trains as a Jedi and then falls in love.

[fenm]

"You can use the light side of the Force, or you can have sex and romance [...] Sure, drink, screw, gamble,.."

So, do you think they can have sex or not? Romance and attachments are verboten, sure, but you can have sex without either of those things.

"kill whoever, as long as you’re a Good Person it doesn’t matter"

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but IMO, "killing whoever" makes you NOT a "Good Person".

[(Anonymous)]

I've never been in a fandom so obsessed with breeding the characters before. Ok, if Obi-Wan and Depa Billaba have a girl, and Yoda and Aayla also have a boy, then their kids can have a kid, and meanwhile Luke and Mara Jade will have a kid and then their kid can breed with Obi-Wan and Yoda's grandkid and form the Gold Jedi that can fly and transverse all terrain.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't really like the idea that it was love specifically that made Anakin evil. (seemed more like it was his desire to control fate anyway) Besides we've definitely seen other jedi love people even if it wasn't in a romantic sense.

But I'm down for the Jedi remaining chaste. It's a tradition. I like the idea of being a force for good means you have to make sacrifices. And it's nice to have heroes in a story that don't have a focus on romance or sex.

Not that it'd surprise me if things changed after Luke. He's not like he got most of the teachings the old Jedi did.

[(Anonymous)]

I hope Luke isn't really Rey's father, I like the idea of him being pure and asexual.

[(Anonymous)]

It wasn't Anakin's love that turned him to the Dark Side, it was his fear of losing the objects of that love that corrupted him. The choice to massacre the Sand People was driven by the pain losing his mother. The choice to accept Palpatine's teachings and massacre the Jedi was not truly driven by love of Padme, but by his own selfish fear of the potential emotional pain her death would cause him.

A Jedi can have love and romance and attachments as long as they are kept in perspective with the larger picture. In Anakin's case, that would have meant accepting that the will of Force might be that it was Padme's time to go and being willing to deal that loss. (And perhaps simply and sensibly asking that Padme kept aides nearby or stayed where she could quickly get to medical attention.)

[(Anonymous)]

I feel this way about Luke. But you are right, if that is true for him than it should be true for Obi-wan. I did like the theory that Rey was related to him, but that doesn't mean she has to be his direct descendant. I always pictured Luke alone and never payed attention to the EU. Mara Jade just never sat well with me because there was no indication of any romance for him in the OT.

[rbhudson]

Excellent use of an Aladdin quote

[(Anonymous)]

Idk This feels like another asexual=aro argument by people who use asexuality only as a matter of making fictional characters single.
Do you realize that even if they didn't have sex for choice or inclination, they could still fall in love and love?

[otakugal15]

Except...that's why the Jedi ultimately fell. they caste out too much that is rather integral to people, be they alien or human. And I WANT Luke to be the Jedi that looked at that and went "ok, nah, some things have gotta change."

He loves his sister. He loves Han. He loves Chewie. By going by the logic that cause Anakin loved his mom and Padme and that is why he fell cause that makes him bad? Yeah, no. That's stupid. That basically makes me think anyone, be they fictional or real, or "bad" cause they love people.

Fuck that noise. Luke and Rey can go off and have romances, kthxbai.