[ SECRET POST #3632 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3632 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 27 secrets from Secret Submission Post #519.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

08. http://i.imgur.com/Vd1Q3oI.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

Now I'm curious - why is it a tradition in certain plays to have certain characters played by the opposite sex? The only other one I know of is Peter Pan being played by a woman, which I guess is kind of understandable because there probably aren't enough young boys who could play the role well and an adult man would look too old and have the wrong voice. But why have a fat woman played by a man just because she's fat, when there are fat women who could do it? Is it just a comedy thing?

[(Anonymous)]

It comes from British Pantomime (oh yes it does), and it is too complicated and insane to describe.

[(Anonymous)]

Not in this case, no. Edna's role comes from the American drag queen tradition, via the legendary Divine.

[(Anonymous)]

and where does the American drag queen tradition come from? Theatre drag is older that that

[(Anonymous)]

No idea about the US but this is how we do over here - I expect this is in the same tradition. Edna is a classic pantomime dame

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantomime#Pantomime_roles

[(Anonymous)]

You know me and my mother go and see a local panto every year, and my uncultured ass didn't realize the guy in drag was part of a long standing tradition. So I learned something today.

[(Anonymous)]

Playing the Dame is a big deal and takes real comedic skill - you need to be a magic combo of absolutely filthy and kid-friendly with it. All the double-entendre jokes have to be just as entertaining for the children as well. Though kids do know that the jokes are "rude" but not quite how rude!

[(Anonymous)]

Nowt to do with panto traditions. The first person to ever play the role was a drag queen so they cast a famous cross-dresser when they made it into a broadway show. The intent wasn't "man plays woman" it was "drag queen gets to perform and earn royalties forever" but it got changed along the way. John Waters made some flap about it when they made the new film and cast John Travolta. The role was written to always cast a drag queen.

Petra Pan

[crossy_woad]

It might be kind of understandable but I think it's kind of shitty. That's why I appreciated that the more recent movie adaptations used young actors in the young roles, instead of a woman as a little boy.

For me at least, Peter Pan was an early crush. Just a cool, fun, cute BOY character. To watch the "live" version and find my fave was played by an adult woman just...I hated that.

I don't know, wouldn't it be a *little* disturbing if a female character that a lot of young boys crush on at that age was consistently played by an adult man, because "that just makes more sense?"

I don't care if it makes sense, damn it. I didn't want my crush played by an adult of the opposite gender! :(

Re: Petra Pan

[(Anonymous)]

Peter has been played by a woman since the very first production in 1904. And if you read "Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens" it's very clear that Peter is actually a dead baby who tries to return to his mother only to find he's been replaced by a new baby and forgotten. Peter Pan is great stuff, but cute and fun? Sure about that?

Re: Petra Pan

[sachiko_san]

Haha, this reminded me of the Ember Island Players in AtlA when Aang got mad because they cast a woman to play him and he was like "I am not a woman!"

Re: Petra Pan

[cbrachyrhynchos]

As a kid, I went to multiple shows with pants roles and more. Just as I had no trouble believing that a lighting tech and a percussionist was a fairy, or that an adult woman was Clara in the nutcracker, or that an oboe was a duck in Peter and the Wolf, I had no problems buying that an athletic soprano was Peter Pan.

Re: Petra Pan

[chardmonster]

Look... I don't want to be political but "it was creepy that I had a crush on a woman" is really the least of our worries isn't it?

Re: Petra Pan

[(Anonymous)]

I... don't really get how having a fictional crush played by someone of the "wrong" gender or age is creepy. Like, if it makes them less convincing in the role, that's one thing. But it sounds like, idk, you were mad that you couldn't crush on live action Peter because he was played by a woman? Like "is this actor/actress acceptable first crush material?" really isn't the first thing people think of when casting children's book adaptations. One of my first crushes was Simba (and no, I'm not a furry) but I'm also not disappointed that his voice actors weren't actually lions.

Re: Petra Pan

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with you.

Re: Petra Pan

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

Well, converse to what so many others have acted, I can understand the problem you had. It wasn't the Pan little-you expected.

[(Anonymous)]

Prince Orlovsky in Die Fledermaus is always played by a woman. (Have always wanted to sing Chacun a son Gout but I'm really not the right kind of mezzo.). Same with Maffeo Orsini in Lucrezia Borgia. And then of course there's Octavian in Rosenkavalier. IDK why though.

[(Anonymous)]

The roles were originally done by castrati (yes, that implies what you may think it implies - thank goodness that practice went way out of fashion) so when castrati were no longer used, in came the ladies
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travesti_(theatre)

[(Anonymous)]

I can understand why you feel that way. It doesn't bother me enough to stay away from the musical entirely but sometimes Edna's songs come off as a little strange when she's talking about accepting herself as a fat woman (and BTW how much she and Maybelle talk about food really doesn't help with stereotyping fat women.)

I also felt weird watching the latest adaptation (Hairspray live) where Maybelle was portrayed by Jennifer Hudson who is... not fat. It made her song seem off as well.

To me movie/musical still gets major points for being overall progressive but I get it.

[(Anonymous)]

Do you also have issues with the headmistress from Matilda being played by a man? Because it is absolutely fabulous and hilarious and perfect the way it is.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not gonna lie, the fact that you repeatedly refer to Hairspray as a play when it's a musical makes me value your opinion less.

And as a fat woman who loves the show...this doesn't and has never bothered me. You're entitled to your opinion though, and I'm sorry you feel that way.

[(Anonymous)]

it's because in the original Hairspray movie, before the musical revival, Edna was played by Divine, a legendary drag queen who was very close friends with the creator.

[(Anonymous)]

Not only a close friend but also a long-time collaborator from the very start of Waters' directing career.

[(Anonymous)]

John Travolta ruined it for me. He refused to kiss Christopher Walken. What an unprofessional twat. Hell, Divine was willing to eat dog crap!