[ SECRET POST #3632 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3632 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 27 secrets from Secret Submission Post #519.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Now I'm curious - why is it a tradition in certain plays to have certain characters played by the opposite sex? The only other one I know of is Peter Pan being played by a woman, which I guess is kind of understandable because there probably aren't enough young boys who could play the role well and an adult man would look too old and have the wrong voice. But why have a fat woman played by a man just because she's fat, when there are fat women who could do it? Is it just a comedy thing?

[(Anonymous)]

It comes from British Pantomime (oh yes it does), and it is too complicated and insane to describe.

[(Anonymous)]

Not in this case, no. Edna's role comes from the American drag queen tradition, via the legendary Divine.

[(Anonymous)]

and where does the American drag queen tradition come from? Theatre drag is older that that

[(Anonymous)]

No idea about the US but this is how we do over here - I expect this is in the same tradition. Edna is a classic pantomime dame

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantomime#Pantomime_roles

[(Anonymous)]

You know me and my mother go and see a local panto every year, and my uncultured ass didn't realize the guy in drag was part of a long standing tradition. So I learned something today.

[(Anonymous)]

Playing the Dame is a big deal and takes real comedic skill - you need to be a magic combo of absolutely filthy and kid-friendly with it. All the double-entendre jokes have to be just as entertaining for the children as well. Though kids do know that the jokes are "rude" but not quite how rude!

[(Anonymous)]

Nowt to do with panto traditions. The first person to ever play the role was a drag queen so they cast a famous cross-dresser when they made it into a broadway show. The intent wasn't "man plays woman" it was "drag queen gets to perform and earn royalties forever" but it got changed along the way. John Waters made some flap about it when they made the new film and cast John Travolta. The role was written to always cast a drag queen.

Petra Pan

[crossy_woad]

It might be kind of understandable but I think it's kind of shitty. That's why I appreciated that the more recent movie adaptations used young actors in the young roles, instead of a woman as a little boy.

For me at least, Peter Pan was an early crush. Just a cool, fun, cute BOY character. To watch the "live" version and find my fave was played by an adult woman just...I hated that.

I don't know, wouldn't it be a *little* disturbing if a female character that a lot of young boys crush on at that age was consistently played by an adult man, because "that just makes more sense?"

I don't care if it makes sense, damn it. I didn't want my crush played by an adult of the opposite gender! :(

Re: Petra Pan

[(Anonymous)]

Peter has been played by a woman since the very first production in 1904. And if you read "Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens" it's very clear that Peter is actually a dead baby who tries to return to his mother only to find he's been replaced by a new baby and forgotten. Peter Pan is great stuff, but cute and fun? Sure about that?

Re: Petra Pan

[crossy_woad]

I never read the original, just enjoyed adaptations as a kid. Children's books, movies, you know. I really don't want to hear your critiques of my taste, thanks.

Re: Petra Pan

[(Anonymous)]

I gave you some brief info about the original works (which were written for children, as it goes - you're not having your cosy kid-lit bubble burst here). Sorry you're not interested in learning more about the origins of your favourite character - other readers might be, so feel free not participate further in a discussion you started, but allow for the fact that it may well interest others. It's entirely your loss - the best and most enduring works for children have a streak of darkness in them.

Re: Petra Pan

[(Anonymous)]

Wasn't the actress who played Mrs. Darling originally supposed to play Hook? I know it's always been the actor who plays Mr. Darling, but I know I read that somewhere.

Also I'm a counter example to the person with the Peter crush; little me gave no shits about cartoon Hook but I remember I found Dustin Hoffman's Hook fascinating. And then of course when I was already an adult there was Jason Isaacs' Hook, but I have a hard time imagining anyone anywhere wouldn't find him attractive in the role. But even little me didn't expect to find every iteration of my fictional crushes attractive; hell, OUAT's Hook makes my skin crawl even though the actor is handsome and seems like a nice guy.

Re: Petra Pan

[sachiko_san]

Haha, this reminded me of the Ember Island Players in AtlA when Aang got mad because they cast a woman to play him and he was like "I am not a woman!"

Re: Petra Pan

[cbrachyrhynchos]

As a kid, I went to multiple shows with pants roles and more. Just as I had no trouble believing that a lighting tech and a percussionist was a fairy, or that an adult woman was Clara in the nutcracker, or that an oboe was a duck in Peter and the Wolf, I had no problems buying that an athletic soprano was Peter Pan.

Re: Petra Pan

[crossy_woad]

You clearly didn't read what I said but whatever

Re: Petra Pan

[chardmonster]

Look... I don't want to be political but "it was creepy that I had a crush on a woman" is really the least of our worries isn't it?

Re: Petra Pan

[crossy_woad]

I didn't have a crush on a woman. I couldn't crush on the character when played by an adult woman. And I thought it was weird.

Also, what is this site for if not to complain about fandom things? It's not Politcal!Secrets is it?

Re: Petra Pan

[(Anonymous)]

I... don't really get how having a fictional crush played by someone of the "wrong" gender or age is creepy. Like, if it makes them less convincing in the role, that's one thing. But it sounds like, idk, you were mad that you couldn't crush on live action Peter because he was played by a woman? Like "is this actor/actress acceptable first crush material?" really isn't the first thing people think of when casting children's book adaptations. One of my first crushes was Simba (and no, I'm not a furry) but I'm also not disappointed that his voice actors weren't actually lions.

Re: Petra Pan

[crossy_woad]

well as a small kid it made me unhappy

fuck all you trolls

Re: Petra Pan

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with you.

Re: Petra Pan

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

Well, converse to what so many others have acted, I can understand the problem you had. It wasn't the Pan little-you expected.

[(Anonymous)]

Prince Orlovsky in Die Fledermaus is always played by a woman. (Have always wanted to sing Chacun a son Gout but I'm really not the right kind of mezzo.). Same with Maffeo Orsini in Lucrezia Borgia. And then of course there's Octavian in Rosenkavalier. IDK why though.

[(Anonymous)]

The roles were originally done by castrati (yes, that implies what you may think it implies - thank goodness that practice went way out of fashion) so when castrati were no longer used, in came the ladies
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travesti_(theatre)

[(Anonymous)]

None of these roles were written for castrati, although it makes sense that there would be a tradition, dating from the era of the castrati, of writing male roles to be sung by a high voice.