[ SECRET POST #3714 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3714 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.



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02.
[this was labeled "1984 musical, David Bowie" for some reason]


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03.
[From Star Trek: The Next Generation, "Time's Arrow", parts 1 and 2]


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04.
[Michael Jackson, "Scream"]


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05.
[Misha Collins]


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06.
[Nisio Isin]


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07.
[Yuri on Ice]


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08.
[Caitlyn Jenner]











Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 48 secrets from Secret Submission Post #531.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

07. http://i.imgur.com/Wy0qBDT.png
[Yuri on Ice]

[alwaysbeenasmiler]

I wouldn't mind seeing a kiss or something that blatantly screams that they are having a relationship-- but I think what I want most out of season 2 is more information on the other skaters--

Because it was such a short anime, you really only got in depth into three characters, but there was so much potential for other characters. I know that if it isn't about Yuri, it wouldn't be called "Yuri on Ice", but I really want to know more about JJ, Otabek and the others because they were portrayed so enticingly, especially with their little interior monologues.

I know that this completely veered off topic from what you meant, OP-- I'm so sorry :(

But I agree with it as well!

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't think it was possible to seriously claim that other pairings I shipped before weren't canonically sexually interested in one another, and then the source material proved me wrong.

[fishnchips]

Yeah, I largely agree with this.

[(Anonymous)]

I mostly agree, though all in all what I fear in (and what'd make me hate) a second season is that they'll play it safe and will focus on keeping the status quo instead of actually developing any of the characters and their relationships.

All because milking their hit could become a priority over any story they want to tell.

[(Anonymous)]

Wasn't it only a controversy with Western fans? And the Japanese fandom mostly thanked Kubo and Yamamoto a lot for making it so clear, from their perspective? So prepare to stop being a fan, I guess, because they're not going to be more explicit just because they were made aware it wasn't good enough for foreigners.

[(Anonymous)]

According to some recent interview, some Japanese fans also had the debate of whether it was a kiss or not, but I don't think it a was full controversy like it was among Western fans.

[alwaysbeenasmiler]

I think that it's kind of a non-issue amongst japanese fans because they usually are not begging for confirmation-- and if they do want it, they usually turn to doujinshi or something to get their 'after story' fix.

[erinptah]

Agreed. Any time the concept of romance come up in a non-metaphorical way, Yuri gets all flustered and brushes it off. But they're clearly into each other, and the show is pushing it in almost every other way -- what do they have to lose by taking this one last step?

[(Anonymous)]

The gay overtones of this anime are impossible to overlook, and there have certainly been anime before it that could openly state that yes, these characters are having gay feelings for each other. There is no excuse for the ambiguity with which they treated Yuuri and Viktor, unless of course the ambiguity was what they were going for all along.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm watching the dub for the first time now (which is really good, btw!) and I have to say, it feels even more obvious in English. Well, maybe because it's my native language and I can appreciate the tone and everything, but there are so many smaller things I don't think I picked up on when I watched it in Japanese first last fall. And even the things I do remember, hearing them in English makes them resonate a little more - sometimes reading things subtitled from Japanese, you can just take that they don't necessarily sound "natural" or else you can't quite fully construe the intent behind the lines. But in English, hearing these lines in English really make it more powerful to me.

Like, with the "ring" scene. The end of the episode before when Yuri runs up to meet Victor at the airport (after he had to perform a routine alone - and a line from a side character like "Imagine what this routine would have looked like if Victor were here, it makes you really want to see that") and asks Victor to be his coach forever. And Victor says something like, "That sounds like a marriage proposal", and seeing Yuri just smile and hug him (without freaking out or denying it)... and then the next episode, he specifically buys rings for Victor. In English, you hear him monologue and try to justify it. He says something like, "I've always wanted a good luck charm. And this is a thank you gift for Victor. Yes, that's what it is, a good luck charm!" but the tone the actor uses makes it clear that he's flustered and trying to justify it. And the "proposal" scene, where he, super flustered, gives Victor the ring, and then says like, "now tell me something!", the tone just sounds really vulnerable and nervous.

Anyway, I think the dub makes it even more obvious that they are gay. It's really clear in the acting.

Still, if there is a season 2, I think an uncensored kiss at very least should be expected. I don't think the studio has any excuse. I can understand "playing it safe" in season 1, but since the show was already a success, I'm not sure what they have to lose. It's not like a show like this would ever need three seasons, but two is reasonable for this sort of genre. I can't imagine a huge portion of the fanbase is homophobic, so at this point, they would be selling to people who already want Victor and Yuri to be a couple, or at least, don't care if they are.

[alwaysbeenasmiler]

This is just a short blurb to respond to your response (which was wonderfully well written, I might add!)-- and really it's just an addenum--- most sports anime has female characters, and those female characters are what the homophobic community cling to (Free! Prince of Tennis and etc) but this series, has very little female presence so it would surprise me if there was, especially in regards to Yuri and Viktor--

And a season two would have to continue on Viktor and Yuri's relationship-- just as it would have to continue on Yuri's further advancement and Viktor's taking up the mantle once again of figure skating-- I can't imagine a situation in which they wouldn't touch on it.

But Japan has surprised me a few times sooo...

[(Anonymous)]

That's true, there's not really a cute female character who has a large presence in the show that would string along a male homophobic fan. The closest I can think of is Yuri's childhood friend who works at the skating rink, but it's kind of interesting that this character is already married and has three kids, so she is decidedly "not available" (to Yuri or the audience, really). I like Minako the ballet teacher - but she's an older woman - and Yuri's sister - but she's a little too unconventional and too minor to be the "cute girl". There's just not a female character there for a homophobic audience to insist that is Yuri's real love interest, or to keep people not interested in male relationships (sexual or otherwise) interested. At least Free! had Kou/Gou.

I do hope we get a season 2, and I feel like there's a good chance of it since season 1 is doing so well in sales and has made enough of a stir for both Japanese and Western audiences. If there is a second season, I just don't think being shady and ambiguous about Yuri and Victor is good from a storytelling standpoint, since Yuri's plot and development are so tied to his love for Victor. It would just feel really weak to not explore it on the next level, and that's not even taking into account any concern for "clear" LGBT representation. I think it already felt noticeably awkward when Yuri and Victor didn't kiss in the finale when it felt so set up for them to do so. In a second season, I don't think "playing it safe" is possible if Yuri remains the protagonist.

[(Anonymous)]

I felt it was very clear, but I'd also like some more not explicit, but blatant relationship stuff in S2. I suspect S2 will focus more on Yurio growing up, however.

Have you looked at the "official fan art?" I'm not sure what it's actually called, but it's all over tumblr. There's some pretty romance-y sweet stuff there.

[(Anonymous)]

I highly doubt that. They're going to want to go where the money leads, and Yuuri and Victor are far more popular characters in Japanese fandom than Yurio is.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, gotta be honest, I don't see the point in focusing on Yurio P. as a protagonist. He won the last competition. Not that he doesn't have any goals left, but what would be that compelling about watching him? Plus, I think he was pretty well developed in the first season, for the tertiary lead he got loads of screen time. I actually felt he got more comprehensive development than even Yuri and Victor did. Not that Yuri and Victor were badly written but it kind of felt like a lot of who they were was happening off camera, and I don't feel their stories are done yet. Yurio certainly has room to grow, but I don't think he'd be a particularly exciting protagonist.

[(Anonymous)]

Ayrt. I hope you're right bc honestly I find him a little dull at times. He's kinda one note and wouldn't carry the narrative well. And he's really too young and immature to have his own romance yet, IMO.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree, Yurio has a lot of growing up to do personality-wise still. If I were to guess, I feel the show set up for him to get an injury somehow - doing quads before he was old enough, constantly pushing himself way too hard when his stamina is not very good, etc. There's no point in the narrative having him win gold again, after all, so I think an injury is within the realm of possibility.

I haven't checked any of the official artwork lately! I'll check it out, thanks!

[iggy]

Kubo has said she doesn't particularly like injuring characters (though she had considered it), but--- yeah I kind of agree that something like this would be a good narrative for him. I don't want to say he needs 'humbling' because it seems kind of mean to say about a kid, but he does need a storyline that I think tells him to slow down a bit?? It's not particularly good for him, and I think it's harmful in the long run.

It might not be an injury; it could just be him adjusting to his body changing, which was hinted at in the first season, but it should be something, I think, as his character arc in the inevitable season two.

And with Victor and Yuuri both competing, it would make sense to have one of the main three sort of 'out of competition', just as Victor wasn't competing in season one (albeit for a very different reason).

But agreed with the above comment that the show will absolutely not focus on Yurio more than Yuuri and Victor. First off, they've outright said he doesn't work well as a protagonist for the kind of story they want to tell, and secondly... yeah the popularity thing.

[(Anonymous)]

" I suspect S2 will focus more on Yurio growing up"

If only. He's way more interesting than muh anxiety and Manic Pixie Dream Bald Guy.

[(Anonymous)]

I never doubted that Yuri and Victor were into each other, but I'll be kinda annoyed if there's no uncensored kiss in season two. I just really want it to happen!

OT, but I hope season two will be longer because I want to know more about Victor, Yurio, Phichit, and the other skaters. I kinda want all of them to have day in the limelight episodes, especially Phichit.

[(Anonymous)]

Agree x 100!!!

Since the show went through the effort of introducing so many distinct characters, despite being such a damn short anime, season 2 might as well give them some spotlight. Prince Phichit deserves at least his own episode, starring him and his hamsters. I also am one of the only fans who fucking adores Chris and JJ (Chris is delicious; JJ is hilarious, give me more of both). I also would love it to be revealed that Chris and Victor have fucked before, I am reasonably confident they have. I also felt bad for a few of the skaters that didn't make it to the Grand Prix, wouldn't mind getting a little more on them and cutting like, Otabek, who didn't really have much personality besides he sucks at ballet, likes Yurio, and is more disadvantaged than the other skaters.

[futuresoon]

The kiss wasn't censored, though--Japanese TV has no problem showing same-sex kisses, as evidenced by the existence of BL anime airing on TV. All of the "controversy" is western fans expecting a western portrayal of romance, as opposed to the Japanese audience the show was meant for, who were perfectly happy with what they got. Japanese romance just isn't as flashy as western romance. To Japanese fans, the relationship was obvious and didn't need to be directly stated.

Telling the creators they need to embrace it or go fuck themselves fundamentally misunderstands the situation. We're not the audience. We're appreciated, but not catered to. We can't expect a story written by another culture to follow every tenet of our own.

And seriously, the kiss wasn't censored. Seriously.

[(Anonymous)]

+1000

Really, calling it "censored" is misrepresentation of facts (at best).

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, couple things.

Japanese TV has no problem showing same-sex kisses
This is not true. This is like saying "American media has no problem with portraying LGBT people on TV because of Modern Family", except x 100. The fact that Japan has, on rare occasion, had same-sex anime kisses on TV (and I'm talking rare occasion, as BL don't typically get aired) doesn't mean Japanese TV "has no problem" showing it. Gay content is still considered risky and potentially alienating. There have been BL series adapted for TV anime that have literally cut the gay content to make it more viewer-friendly.

Japanese romance just isn't as flashy as western romance.
You can't simultaneously say that Japan has no problem airing same-sex kisses, and then say Japanese romance is always subtle. Most romance anime has kisses (that aren't blocked by hands or masked as a maybe-hug). If Yuri was a female character, the chance that the kiss would've been more obvious is extremely high, ergo, we have a problem. It's annoying to say it's just artistic when it more realistically comes down to, if we show the gay, we narrow our target viewer demographic.

To Japanese fans, the relationship was obvious and didn't need to be directly stated.
The relationship was obvious, but "not needing to be directly stated" might be more tied to Japan being leagues behind on LGBT rights than most Western countries. You can say subtlety is beautiful all you want, but my argument is that anime isn't actually inherently as subtle as people claim. Romance stories are usually made physically clear if they are a leading element of the story and involve the main characters. And talking het doesn't even lead into the issues that Japan, too, has with LGBT portrayal (which is a lot) - where Japan is a country that doesn't recognize LGBT rights, still largely equates being gay with being trans, still associates gay with just being a porn or comedy thing rather than a real life thing - like you can't try to take the approach that Japan just doesn't see this as a problem, because of course as a whole it wouldn't, because Japan has a problem with LGBT.

Telling the creators they need to embrace it or go fuck themselves fundamentally misunderstands the situation. We're not the audience.
I mean okay, you can say because the show wasn't made in your own country you don't get to have an opinion, which I would disagree with. Especially since the show was simulcast and a large amount of its revenue came from Crunchyroll. But I don't see the point of that, it's not like Japan is an alien planet, people can still have opinions and concerns, and it's still important for the creators to be receptive or at least open to criticism.