[ SECRET POST #4203 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4203 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 45 secrets from Secret Submission Post #602.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

01. https://i.imgur.com/rUlCDSi.png

[(Anonymous)]

It's frustrating because, like, you're right. You're 100% totally right. And also, there is a lot of criticism of female characters in a lot of fandom that is bullshit and sexist. And once you blow things up to the scale of an Internet fandom, those topics lose any kind of nuance they might once have had and become impossible to actually discuss reasonably.

There's just kind of... no real satisfying answer here, unless it's "only discuss fandom with people that you know to be reasonable".

[osidiano]

+1

[(Anonymous)]

Very well said. I also find it frustrating because on the one hand, criticizing a popular female character in any media can be met with cries of sexism and hate even if civil, cogent reasons are provided. But on the other hand, often mentioning this phenomenon will yield at least one or two "I've never seen that happen" comments.

I'm just like... yes, and? You don't believe things exist unless you personally witness them? You don't believe fandom can be this this argumentative? (A big HAHAHA to that last one.)

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed 100%.

[killertofuuu]

Pretty much, yeah.

[rosehiptea]

Yup, this. I tend to love many female characters and cut them a lot of slack but that doesn't mean no one can criticize them without being sexist.

[type_wild]

Once upon a time, I'd say that it was a kneejerk reaction to fandom's unfortunate hang to bashing female characters for ship-related reasons (slash fandom was not always a space of soft bois uwu). But in 2018, I can't help but wonder how many of these kids have in fact seen that for themselves, because it sure hasn't been happening in my fandom spaces the last twelve years or so.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sure it still happens, but I think it's probably a case where people tend to react more strongly to this kind of thing and they react very strongly to the idea of it, too even if they haven't personally witnessed it.

It's not entirely rational. If I had a dollar for every time I've seen a discussion right here on FS get weird because User A said something fairly innocuous about [insert character here] and User B jumps in with a big chip on their shoulder ready to fight because lots of other people on the internet (but not, it should be pointed out, User A) have said nasty things about [insert character here], I'd could treat myself to a nice steak dinner. People aren't always reacting to what's right in front of them, they're reacting to other arguments made elsewhere on the internet as though those faraway arguments are right in front of them.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it happens less for ship-related reasons than it used to, but it still happens for other reasons.

[(Anonymous)]

Except relena fans and kairi fans need to get over their grudgewank about the big mean old slash fans who hate the girl who gets in the way of the hot yaoiz. That was just a different hottake on misogyny that's no different.

[(Anonymous)]

"because it sure hasn't been happening in my fandom spaces the last twelve years or so"

Clearly, you've never been in Marvel fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

To some extant, yeah. To other extents, nah?

I kinda made this distinction in the GTA V secret a couple of days ago, but a lot of the times female characters are written very unfavorably from a male perspective. Perhaps not even intentionally, but as to better serve the needs of a "gritty" story that requires the main character (male) be in a dysfunctional/failing relationship (with a female character). Both characters will wind up doing bad things to each other, but the main character needs to be sympathetic and the POV so at the end everything they'll do will be sympathetic, but no writing will be spared to make sure the other character (female) will get the level of justification/sympathy.

Like pretty much I don't see it as a character issue, more of a writer's issue that skimps out on making female characters with as much depth and good writing as male characters. Like sure you could go out and lambast the female character as much as you want, but what's the point? Characters are just words on the script written by writers and staff. They're not actual people, and bad writing makes it even more apparent how much effort they're given (or lack of) when it they don't act like real human beings.

Of course that goes for stuff where the writers didn't care/think about giving female characters the same amount of effort as male characters. If you're talking about stuff like Umineko where female characters are indeed given the same amount of effort as male characters, and indeed some are written to be very hateable on purpose (note: this is counteracted by the author actually making them well-rounded and giving them understandable human motivations instead of being evil for the lolz), then go ahead?

tl;dr - badly written female characters are often products of lazy writers, but people on the internet don't recognize that, and use the opportunity to be strangely misogynistic about real human beings.

[(Anonymous)]

You're right. * Although I've seen the converse, where I'm trying to critique the writing (which is usually by a dude) of a female character and how it's lacking, and you get defenses of the character (and as a consequence, the writer) as if they're a real woman.

[(Anonymous)]

Whether or whether not that is a justifiable standpoint depends wholly on the cultures you move in. Some of us are lucky enough to get to scoff at barricade stormers, but when you are in the middle of a war you don't have the luxury to overlook violation of rights and integrity. I'm sure you can overlook this to some extent, when you think about its grim back-draw.

[(Anonymous)]

Some of us are lucky enough to get to scoff at barricade stormers, but when you are in the middle of a war you don't have the luxury to overlook violation of rights and integrity.

spicy

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, boy...

[(Anonymous)]

Get over yourself.

[(Anonymous)]

What

[(Anonymous)]

it's but because fandom has decided female character's nonexistent feelings > real people's feelings and it's some twisted form of accceptable misogyny. the reason I don't care or dislike most female characters is because they're flat or written by men and/or are less nuanced than male characters. it's not that deep. And of course there's always gonna be some grudge wankers who's gonna pull out but people like X MINOR MALE CHARACTER bogeyman whataboutism that's irrelevant and dissuades me from wanting to like the female character more.

[(Anonymous)]

I can understand that. And I don't assume everyone who hates a/several female characters are misogynistic. Nor do I need a TL;DR about their feelings on every character in order to justify their dislike of a female character. However, I've seen in the past people who love one male character but hate a female character from that show for doing the same/similar things, and I wonder about that person. I've not seen it as much of late, so it might be (as posters above me said) that it's getting better. (I honestly just assumed it was because I'm not really in fandom as much anymore, but I'd love to be wrong.)

It just sucked, because I had about equal male and female character favorites and so often the female ones were bashed or ignored in favor of male characters. It became really really tiresome. (And was a big reason I mostly left fandom.)

[(Anonymous)]

I feel this oh so much.

[(Anonymous)]

My favorite is when you dislike a female character because the way the writers wrote her was sexist. Like sorry, but I am not going to like a female character when her entire characterization and motivation revolves around a man because that is just sexist and bad writing.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay but like. I haven't met people who criticize 99% of the female characters in anything (except the ones that tend toward much more masculine-seeming traits) who don't have misogynistic reasonings and then complain about the meanie fandom bullies when people go, "Okay but that's kind of sexist???"

[(Anonymous)]

You're so right though OP.