[ SECRET POST #5125 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5125 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 31 secrets from Secret Submission Post #734.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

To people jumping at OP for homophobia... is it phobia to have a preference? As long as they're not actively shitting on slash who the hell are they hurting with a damn fanfic?

I know for sure a lot of slash shippers won't touch femslash with a ten foot pole but interestingly that's never seen as lesbophobic, instead there's always some flimsy excuse about female characters being badly written or whatever.

[(Anonymous)]

Nobody is even remotely saying that there's anything wrong with liking het. Pretending that's the issue here is dumb. If OP had a secret about liking a het ship, no one would give a shit, except maybe to ask why it was even a secret at all.

You don't necessarily have to think that there's a problem with taking a slash ship and making it het. But like... let's be honest about what we're talking about, at least. Nobody is objecting in the slightest to someone having a preference for het in general.

[(Anonymous)]

To my knowledge the Good Omens ship isn't "canon" i.e. they have a vaguely defined relationship to begin with. I struggle to see an issue with someone thinking "ah, this duo is cute but I'd connect to it even more if one of them were a woman". They're not writing emails to Neil Gaiman demanding to rewrite the book nor are they trying to remove the literally thousands of slashfics that already exist of it

[(Anonymous)]

You can think one thing or the other about whether making the ship M/F is homophobic - I'm not even arguing one way or the other about that.

I'm just saying that simply having a preference for het over slash is absolutely not what anyone at all is objecting to. So saying something like "is it a phobia to have a preference" does not address the situation as it stands. It's not relevant.

[(Anonymous)]

I struggle to see an issue with someone thinking "ah, this duo is cute but I'd connect to it even more if one of them were a woman".

This.

[(Anonymous)]

There's degrees of homophobia, and not all of them are "Evil Person Hates The Gays". Sometimes it is as simple as "I'd rather this gay couple be het so that I personally can relate to it more"--it's just a sign of living in a heterosexist society, where gay stories are fewer in number to start with, not the mark of the devil or something.

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, I don't know. For smut, I get it, you gotta write what gets you hot. But once you start getting into genderswapping to *connect* with a character, you open up a whole other can of worms, especially if you're still primarily doing it for shipping purposes. Suddenly, it seems less like it's genderswapping to explore new potentials for a character, and more like you just want to write a more heteronormative relationship.

[(Anonymous)]

mte.

it's constantly frustrating to me as a gay woman how much fandom centers the talk of homophobia around m/m while completely ignoring f/f in the conversation at all(because gay-men are the only thing that fandom en masse gives a fuck about), and when it is mentioned everyone argues their way around why them not liking f/f is totally acceptable and fine(with increasingly disturbing comments about how much these women hate their own bodies that makes me just feel fucking sorry for them).

note: i don't think not being into f/f is inherently a sign of lesphobia, but the same goes for not being into m/m, it's just a preference and the only time i'll side eye is if the person acts like f/f or m/m is morally degenerate or disgusting as a concept.

[(Anonymous)]

Personally, I would be SO much more uncomfortable reading a fic in which a f/f (in canon) pairing had been changed to m/f. That raises all kinds of red flags that don't even appear when it happens to m/m ships.

[(Anonymous)]

DA - It doesn't seem to happen very often, but I could see the reason behind making a femslash ship het being very similar to the reason behind making a slash ship het.

With the slash ship, the person may find one of the characters really hot, and may like the general set-up of the relationship, but have trouble projecting themselves into the fic without having a female character to project onto. So they make the other character female.

With the femslash ship, the person may find one of the characters extremely relatable, and may like the general set-up of the relationship, but have trouble finding the ship compelling without a male character for them to be attracted to. So they make the other character make.

I'm not someone who projects myself onto the fics I read, but a lot of people clearly do. And while I do personally feel uncomfortable with the idea of making a canon lgbt pairing into a cis/het pairing, the bottom line is that YKINMK still holds.

[(Anonymous)]

increasingly disturbing comments about how much these women hate their own bodies that makes me just feel fucking sorry for them

There are lots of women out there with body issues. I'm one of them, and thanks to some pretty deeply ingrained trauma it makes me feel physically sick to read porn featuring women's bodies. M/m is my safe haven. That's just how it is for me, and many others i'm sure. If you find that disturbing, well I don't really care tbh.

[(Anonymous)]

I feel fortunate to be mostly okay with my body at this point in my life, but it's honestly not remotely surprising that many, many women aren't, and I find it disingenuous when people act like, "God, how fucked up must you BE to HATE your own BODY?!"

Like...a pretty normal amount of fucked up, Jan. Have you seen the way society treats women and their bodies?

[(Anonymous)]

Lesbian woman: makes an entire comment with a valid point about lesphobia and briefly explains how people always find excuses, and throws in as an example people who claim to not enjoy f/f because of "body issues" - but, I assume from the context given by the secret, would read m/f anyway

People: Are nitpicky about that one point, an EXAMPLE

lol we can't win can we?

[(Anonymous)]

You mean "lesbian woman makes an entire huge comment complaining about lesbophobia under a secret that isn't about a lesbian couple getting turned het by genderbending and wonders why people are not picking her completely OT comment".
This secret wasn't about making a lesbian couple het. It also wasn't about genderbending both characters to make them a lesbian couple, which most people would have much, much less of an issue with than the het version. So the comment, no matter the valid points, had very little to do with the secret.

[(Anonymous)]

To people jumping at OP for homophobia... is it phobia to have a preference?

MFTE. This thread is gross. If slash doesn't do it for OP, that is 100% okay. If they want to write a slash ship as a het ship so that it does do it for them, that's also okay.

[(Anonymous)]

I mean for that second part, I loathe that excuse too, but that's the fault of misogyny (either in overall society or internalized). It doesn't make changing a same-sex couple to a straight one less homophobic, so IDK what the point of this comparison is.

[(Anonymous)]

It doesn't make changing a same-sex couple to a straight one less homophobic

NAYRT - That's fine, since here's nothing inherently homophobic about it in the first place.

[(Anonymous)]

It is, though. You're essentially saying "the only reason I don't like this ship as it is is because it's gay." If that's not homophobic, then what is?

[(Anonymous)]

Not being into m/m or f/f ships because that's not your preference is fine. But taking a ship where the two characters involved are both men or both women and genderbending one of them to make it het? Yes, that's being homophobic.

[(Anonymous)]

You mean it's perfectly okay to:
-prefer m/m and genderbend a ship to m/m
-prefer f/f and genderbend a ship to f/f
But it's wrong and homophobic to:
-prefer m/f and genderbend a ship to m/f

Make it make sense.

[(Anonymous)]

God, this so hard.

[(Anonymous)]

who in this thread is saying either one of those things is okay either?

[(Anonymous)]

This.

[(Anonymous)]

What part of "there's already less media for gay shit" is hard to understand? Straight people have more options, all the time, forever.

[(Anonymous)]

interestingly that's never seen as lesbophobic, instead there's always some flimsy excuse about female characters being badly written or whatever.

LMAO what planet do you live on where accusations of lesbophobia aren't tossed about like confetti? If someone doesn't like a femslash ship there is an absolute GUARANTEE they will be called lesbophobic, and any reason they give about badly written female characters will get them a plethora of additional accusations of misogyny. I like femslash itself, but I will not touch any fandom for a F/F ship because this shit is unavoidable, and the fandom talks as much about how people who don't like their ship all hate lesbians/women and worship the white cock, as they do about the ship.