[ SECRET POST #1837 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1837 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02. [broken link]


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03.
[Robin Of Sherwood/Michael Praed]


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04.
[Glee]


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05.
[We Got Married - Ga In (Brown Eyed Girls)/Jo Kwon (2AM)]


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06.


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07.


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08.
[Buzz Lightyear of Star Command]


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09. http://i.imgur.com/8DbqS.png
[linked for nudity/kind of porny]


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10.
[Josh Groban and Andrea Bocelli]


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11.
[Beast Wars, Megatron]


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12.


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13.


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14.
[Magic Mike]


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15.


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16. [repeat]


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17.
[Harry Potter & Little House on the Prairie]


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18.


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19.


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20.
[X-Men: First Class]


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21.
[Death Note]


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22.


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23.


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24.


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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]












25. [SPOILERS for something, OP did not specify]



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26. [SPOILERS for Vampire Hunter D]



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27. [SPOILERS for Christmas Doctor Who and New Year's Sherlock]



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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]












28. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]
[SPOILERS for Loveless]



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29. [TRIGGER WARNING for abuse]



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30. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]



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31. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape, animal cruelty]



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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #262.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[miezen.livejournal.com]

I'm not really sure I'm following you at all, OP, but if what you're saying is that you hate how people are so fast to jump on any potentially offensive portrayal of the Nazis within Hetalia fandom as a horrible thing, but let offensive Soviet Russia, British Empire, etc portrayals slide, then I agree. The way some things in this fandom handle the Nazis is sickening and there's not excuse, but it really bugs me when someone does something just as offensive with Soviet Russia or some other dictatorship, or another serious historical period, etc and no one bats an eyelash because no one really knows what they're talking about to see what's wrong with it.

[childings.livejournal.com]

Well, two of those countries committed genocide, the others didn't
And while war is certainly horrible, think about what was happening to Britain at that time. Germany was taking over all of Europe and Africa and they were bombing the shit out of Britain at the time. What course of action would you have taken as a nation at that time?

[miezen.livejournal.com]

So only genocide qualifies as a potentially offensive topic? I'm not suggesting that being offended by bullshit the fandom has done in relation to Nazis is wrong at all, but it is a bit silly to give out a free pass to be an idiot about other atrocities that have occurred throughout history. The way some people act like only Nazi Germany's WWII atrocities are still a sensitive subject that should be treated with caution is ridiculous. There are just as many people who are still alive today that were directly affected by Soviet Russia's war crimes, but you don't see anyone getting up in arms over a Soviet Russia cosplayer being offensive, or all of the horrible fics that trivialize the Red Army's actions into "lol Russia raped Prussia and isn't this smutty rapefic about it hot?".

And while war is certainly horrible, think about what was happening to Britain at that time. Germany was taking over all of Europe and Africa and they were bombing the shit out of Britain at the time. What course of action would you have taken as a nation at that time?

...Uh. re; British Empire I'm not even talking about during WWII. I'm talking about colonization primarily here. Hetalia is about world history from ancient civilization all the way up to modern day. The fandom's bullshit isn't all WWII-related either.

[childings.livejournal.com]

Oh and also

Soviet Russia's war crimes

Which is why I said "two of those countries committed genocide"
Guess which other country I was referring to

[miezen.livejournal.com]

You aren't even listening to what I'm saying. Short version:

It's ridiculous how people both in and outside of Hetalia fandom are so quick to jump on anything potentially offensive relating to Nazis but don't even think twice about something equally offensive relating to the atrocities or general dark history of other countries besides Germany. IMO any offensive bullshit like that should be called out, not just if it relates to Nazis. Tons of Soviet Russia stuff that's similar and equally offensive slips under the radar.

Any questions?

[(Anonymous)]

THIS, OH MY GOD. Seriously, I've looked over the entire thread and you are one of only two people I agree with completely.

[miezen.livejournal.com]

Thank you, anon. I'm probably not entirely interpreting the secret correctly since it went off on a weird tangent, but just. It's something that's bugged me about this fandom for a while now.

[childings.livejournal.com]

God, you're dense.

I agree with you about Soviet Russia. That's why, in response to the actual secret (I have no idea why you are going off on a tangent about European history from time immemorial and how all countries have done horrible things, no shit) I was making the point that only two of the countries mentioned here committed genocide. Those two countries are:

1. Nazi Germany
2. Soviet Russia

At first I thought, maybe English just isn't your first language so you couldn't cognitively deduce that by saying "two countries" I was talking about Germany and Russia, but now, I really just don't know what you were thinking

Yes, I agree with OP that wearing Soviet symbols is just as bad as the Nazi shit. That is not the point I was trying to make.

THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE was that it's ridiculous to compare what Britain did in WWII (Hetalia isn't only about WWII but this secret is specially about WWII, OP even specified "1940s US/UK" in the secret) to what the Soviets or the Nazis did. A country pushed into a corner by Axis aggression that was getting the everloving shit bombed out of it might be a little justified in dropping bombs on the aggressor nation. Unless you're so extreme that you don't think nations have the right to defend themselves from annihilation.

Anyway, HOPE THIS SPELLS IT OUT FOR YOU since I forgot I have to be completely literal and long-winded on F!S for anyone to understand me

[childings.livejournal.com]

I was making the point that only two of the countries mentioned here committed genocide.

That should read "committed genocide in WWII". I can't edit my comments and I'm trying to be as picky about my words here as possible to avoid MISUNDERSTANDING WHICH IS APPARENTLY RAMPANT in this thread

[miezen.livejournal.com]

Nope, but you're a jackass. Of course you have to be clear about what your point is in a conversation. That's common sense. Conversation over.

[lovelycudy.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure if anyone makes anything to represent the Soviet Union's crimes, people will protest. And, to be honest, the British/French/Belgian/Portuguese/Spanish Empire actions are on a different level than what the Nazis did. They were terrible things, of course, and those countries will always have them in their conscience but there's a reason why the Third Reich crimes are regarded as so completely different. It's hard to explain.

[miezen.livejournal.com]

Uh. The things the Soviet Union did were just as bad and if you honestly think they aren't, you should probably go read up on them. Japan's, too. And uh. I bring up the Soviet Union specifically because I already have seen quite a few offensive as all fuck fanworks about it and no one seems to care. So yeah no. This fandom gets offensive with all sorts of different things, but only things related to Nazis or cases of "too soon" get substantial backlash and it's gross.

[lovelycudy.livejournal.com]

I was talking about the cosplay.

There's something different about the Reich's crimes. It may be that it's a huge blow on the face of Western's conscience, or the scientific aspect of the genocide, or how they shatter our illusion of a rational, humane civilisation. It maybe the fact that it took so long to reveal Stalin's crime and that the camps were better known. Or maybe a self-centred way to understand the world that makes things done by "one of us", Germany in this case, harder to accept. It maybe the philosophical repercussions of it ("to write lyric poetry after Auschwitz is barbaric"). It maybe that the intellectuals and artists expelled from Germany and Austria are much closer to us than the ones that suffered the Soviet rule. But there's something that makes the Nazis stand out as different than the Soviets in our minds. And I don't think it's prejudice against Germany... after all, the Russians were held in low-esteem even before 1917.

Even so, the famous speech on Stalin's crimes had a tremendous impact in European and American (the continent) intellectuality and was a pivotal point in the left's turn to China.

The reasons why Japan's crimes are not as present in our memories and collective identities have to do with sheer distance, both geographical and cultural.

That doesn't make it right, but there are reasons why people have different takes on these matters. And this is true all across the Western world, not only in America.

[miezen.livejournal.com]

I'm sure it's happened in cosplay too. Tons of Russias think it's okay to "molest" people because "hurrhurr rapetruck Soviet Russia", for instance. I'm sure people have probably taken it a step further with the Soviet implications before. We just haven't heard about it because the event didn't blow up online later like the Anime Boston sieg heil did.

...Um. So the crux of your argument is "because the Nazis made such an impact on Western, specifically American culture, what they did is worse than what any other country ever did"? That is so backwards. No. What the Nazis did is not worse than any other genocide committed. The fact that Western culture has latched onto it, while the Soviets covered up their crimes for so long, Japan is far away, etc does not make those atrocities any less tragic, and to say so is just plain disrespectful to all of the people who lost their lives in those tragedies, or those who lost family, friends, etc. What the Nazis did at its core is not worse than other genocides. All genocide is a horrible thing, playing the "which is worse" game is fucking ridiculous and pretty damn insulting tbh.

Also the America-centrism of your argument is kind of disgusting.

[(Anonymous)]

When it comes to genocide, speaking as a Brit, we have a long, LONG history as an empire of subjugating or wiping out foreign races in the path of imperial expansion. Not during WWII, true, because the British Empire's power was waning by then, but the treatment of Australian and New Zealand aborigines, the Zulu wars, the whole HISTORY of South Africa, India, Hong Kong, Iraq and large other chunks of the Middle East to name but a few. But I'm particularly thinking about the Zulu wars, because you said genocide.

We are far, far, FAR from an innocent nation. I'd venture to suggest that Britain is among the nations with the bloodiest and most distasteful imperial histories.

[sandor051.livejournal.com]

Not by a long shot.

Now that's not to say Britain doesn't have a history of doing some really awful things, but as an empire all we had going for us in the 'complete moral monsters' department.

That prize would probably go to the French, or maybe the Belgiums because they managed to pack so much awfulness into such a limited reign.

[(Anonymous)]

I'll admit I don't know nearly as much about French or Belgian atrocities, all I know is that almost all the countries that were ever coloured red have still to recover from the experience.

Also I don't understand your second sentence, are you missing the end of the last clause?

[sandor051.livejournal.com]

Sorry, meant to say that size was all we really had going for us. There's very very few countries in the world we haven't at some point either ruled, or went to war with.

Now this isn't to downplay the atrocities that Britain did commit, which it would take an awfully long time to list, it's just you need to contextualise it. When compared to any of the other colonial powers spread across the world, we weren't remarkable in any respect except scope.

If anything as you touched upon, the thing we were worst at was pulling out. Whilst ruling we'd played numerous ethnic groups within each country against each other, then just drew lines almost at random to demarcate these new nations, and conceded to autonomous rule practically overnight.

As one would expect, the natives didn't really appreciate this.

[childings.livejournal.com]

I was only talking about WWII since OP's secret seemed to suggest that they were only talking about WWII (they specifically said "1940s US/UK" for fuck's sake), I don't really know how this discussion turned into a discussion of the history of European countries from time immemorial and who had the most cumulative blood on their hands

Sometimes I hate fandom secrets so much

[lovelycudy.livejournal.com]

all I know is that almost all the countries that were ever coloured red have still to recover from the experience.

As a South American, I can tell you that it's the same for all old colonies.

[kindlycoyote.livejournal.com]

Eh, my personal opinion is that any country that gets even a little power is bound to, at some point in their history, go batshit insane.

Really, is there any nation that hasn't committed atrocious acts in the last thousand or so years? I think most large countries have probably committed some scale of genocide in their past.

Not that this excuses those atrocities, just that when people start talking about who is the worst a part of my brain starts going 'Just give people power and time, power and time...'

[(Anonymous)]

Hi, I'd like to introduce you to this thing called the Opium Wars. You might be interested.

[childings.livejournal.com]

But what does that have to do with Dresden though
Seriously, comparing the British response to Axis aggression in WWII and actual genocide (note again that I am only talking WWII here, not the HISTORY OF EVERYTHING EVER) is just fucking dumb

[lovelycudy.livejournal.com]

This. Dresden =/= the Nazi aggression.

[lovelycudy.livejournal.com]

I'd venture to suggest that Britain is among the nations with the bloodiest and most distasteful imperial histories.

Not even close.

One question, how are those crimes regarded in Britain? Here we don't classify them as genocide or even ethnic cleansing and fall into the traditional term of "imperialism crimes" because they lack a certain, ummm, premeditation, I guess? But how are they treated in the UK?