[ SECRET POST #1843 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1843 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 50 secrets from Secret Submission Post #263.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Personally I don't like the idea of John and Sherlock being a couple. Not because I'm against slash pairings, but because imo it implies men aren't capable of interacting on a deeper level without romance being involved. It would take away from the beautiful friendship they have. Same goes with characters like Sam and Frodo.

[(Anonymous)]

HOW DARE YOU SAM AND FRODO'S LOVE WAS REAL.

:D

[making-excuses.livejournal.com]

This! I am so tired of people shipping two men who have a close relationship, why can't they just be friends? Same goes to most close friendship, why do it have to be shiped?

I do read Sherlock/John fics though, but really I don't ship them in the show, just find the fics facinating, same with Sherlock/any other pairing including 3 and 4-somes, only fandom where I don't really care about any ships at all...

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

Men are "just friends" in ABSOLUTELY EVERY TELEVISION SHOW EVER. EVER. I can't think of a single show other than, idk, Queer As Folk where the main male character isn't ~just friends with every other male protagonist. JFC. PLEASE tell me where these shows are hiding where the men are more than friends!

And why is it not okay for men to be more than just friends?

And to the thread OC, what the fuck about becoming a couple "takes away" from a friendship? Excuse me? I'd love to hear the explanation on this, since I'm currently dating and completely in love with the girl who has been my best friend for years. Please, explain how my loving her and being in a relationship with her takes away from our friendship.

[making-excuses.livejournal.com]

I probably was not clear in my comment, I would not object to more gay canon pairings, I would like that quite a bit, it is all the slashing that gets to me, but then again I don't have that many pairings I ship that aren't canon, so I might be a bit biased.

Torchwood had quite a bit of gayness, but that is not enough, in a perfect world there would be more gay characters and different ethnicity and more female leading roles, and maybe one day we will.


And I wish you and your girlfriend all the happiness in the world!

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

Your comment is very supportive of a really gross, slightly homophobic comment about how John and Sherlock shouldn't become a canon pairing, though. You should really make it more clear if you don't intend to support what they say, because it sure did sound like you do. And there is something a bit very... off about the argument that there's something wrong with fandom shipping two men together -- "why can't they just be friends?" Maybe because they already are in the fandom proper. Maybe because there's virtually no representation for homosexual characters in popular fiction. Any number of reasons. I'd like it very much if anyone who says those kinds of things could look at why they think it's a horrible thing, especially considering how male friendship is shown everywhere, while gay male relationships are so severely underrepresented.

I really wish shows would include more gay and lesbian characters-- and of course, more women and minority characters as well. It infuriates me when I see a new show come out with an all-white, mostly male, all-straight cast. Ugh. It's one part of why I would love it so much if Sherlock went that route -- though of course not the only reason, lol.

Thank you very much! :) I hope you got that that part of my comment was directed at the OC of the thread, not you.

[making-excuses.livejournal.com]

I will try to explain how I feel when it comes to shipping bff relationships (both gay and straight) is that for me yes friendship can turn into more, but why do every hug or touch or shared look have to mean that they want to see each other naked? I don't want to see my best friend naked no matter how many times I hug her or tell her I love her. I know that it is not a popular fandom opinion and maybe I should just keep my mouth shut, but my opinion is worth just as much as anyone elses.

So me not wanting Sherlock and John to become canon is not me being homophobic it is just my opinion nor is wanting most of my bff relationship on tv to stay just that, bffs. I ship both slash and straight relationships, I have both straight and gay friends, just like I have friends of both gender and different ethnicity, the thing is though that I don't want to see people making out if the couple is gay or not is irrelevant, public displays of affection makes me uncomfortable, but that has to make me homophobic right?

And for the record I did not see comment as you put it "gross, slightly homophobic", I just saw it as something I agreed on, but you see it differently and if I offended you with that I am sorry.

I got that, still wont stop me from being nice...

[(Anonymous)]

Wow, calm down. It's perfectly okay for men to be more than friends.

I'm not saying you can't be in a relationship with your best friend. I'm saying that in the case of these particular characters, I don't think their love has to be romantic to be powerful. If they turned them into a couple I feel it would take away the point of their relationship. Again, I'm thinking more along the lines of Frodo and Sam than just any fictional male BFFs. I'm sorry if I'm not explaining myself well. It's late and I'm tired.

[(Anonymous)]

BTW I've shipped slash pairings before and completely agree there should be more gay relationships on television. I just don't think John and Sherlock are the right characters to do that with.

[fenm.livejournal.com]

If they turned them into a couple I feel it would take away the point of their relationship.

Please explain how and why.

[(Anonymous)]

First off, I don't think Sherlock should be in a romantic relationship with anyone, man or woman. Like the Doctor, I don't believe he's capable of it. He's married to his job.

He and John obviously love and depend on each other, more than anyone else, but to me they're relationship is like that of two brothers. If they were a couple it would be a different dynamic and imo out of character for Sherlock.

If you see them as a couple then great, but I think it's better left as something to interpret than made canon and that doesn't make me homophobic.

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

Your comment said, literally, that hooking them up would imply that men can't be "just friends," ergo you believe that having a SINGLE canon gay pairing in one single show would imply to the world that no men can ever be just friends. That's ridiculously homophobic and, you know, really fucking stupid.

You said that making their relationship canon would "take away" from their friendship. I said, I got in a relationship with my best friend, does that mean it "took away" from our friendship? What, exactly, does a romantic relationship "take away" from a friendship?

And what is the "point" of their relationship that would be taken away if they became a couple? Please tell me, I'm dying to know.

You haven't explained anything. All you've done is make yourself look like a homophobe who doesn't like the idea of two men hooking up on your television.

[(Anonymous)]

I am not a homophobe, and I really don't appreciate you insulting me like that. You know nothing about me. I have trouble putting my thoughts into words, so I'm sorry if I'm not answering your question.

I admit that post was poorly worded. What I meant was that some people seem to view any affection or special bond between best friends, (whether it's two men, two women or a man and a woman), as some sort of proof that they secretly want to sleep with each other, and there can be no other explanation. The reason I referred primarily to the two men scenario is because from my experience it's more common than the two women scenario. As another example, I feel the same way about Harry and Hermione. Their friendship is one of my favourite things about Harry Potter, and I wouldn't want that to be changed. Of course friends can develop feelings for each other but that isn't always the case. I guess it's not so much the idea itself that bothers me as the people who shove it down your throat that these two characters are DEFINITELY in love with each other and if you feel differently you're an idiot or a homophobe.

To me putting Sherlock in a romantic relationship with John is like putting The Doctor in a romantic relationship with one of his companions. I just don't agree with it.

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, insulting someone like that based on how you interpreted their comment is really fucking stupid. I know several gay men who don't want Sherlock/John to be canon. Are they homophobic too?

[(Anonymous)]

...Because they can?

[making-excuses.livejournal.com]

That is true dear anon, that is true, freedom of speech and everything.

[finmagik.livejournal.com]

Oh, I fear for you dearest. I got eaten for an opinion like this. I came around to understand Sherlock/John but I still don't ship it and now I don't mean the really terrible things I said. but I had to leave.

[making-excuses.livejournal.com]

I will be okay and I feel sorry for you!

[(Anonymous)]

...Because most shows only show two guys being gay together?

I mean they never show them as being friends or anything, no way.

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

Nooo that never happens!

Except in everything ever.

Seriously, I want a list of this supposed overwhelming number of TV shows where the main characters are men and in a relationship.

They sound like the kind of shows I'd like to watch.

[hoggle2807.livejournal.com]

Yes, every show ever has guys that are friends. But that's just it. They're friends. They're buddies. They're pals. I'd make the argument that the number of shows that explore honest-to-god close friendships between two men is nearly as rare as shows with gay protagonists.

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

That's bullshit and I certainly hope you know it.

Off the top of my head: Psych, Criminal Minds, Being Human (presumably both versions, though I only have personal experience with the UK version), The West Wing, House MD... would you like me to go on? These are all shows with "honest to god close friendships between two men." I could probably name a dozen more given a little time.

Close friendships between two men are all over the frigging place in television. They're not rare, they're not unheard-of. Period.

[ncc-gqmf.livejournal.com]

Yeah, this is... untrue. Shows about close platonic male relationships have been around for ages. Why do you think slash fandom started with Star Trek? Why were Highlander, Starsky and Hutch, Man from UNCLE, and Due South so popular to slashers? Oh, right -- because they're all about men who are closer to each other than they are to women.

Besides which, these days, bromance is practically de rigeur for sitcoms. C.F. Community, Cougar Town (done by the same showrunner as Scrubs, the origin of "Guy Love"), How I Met Your Mother, Happy Endings... that show and the dramedy in my icon, Sirens, subvert it by having one member of the bromance actually be gay, but they're still platonic relationships. Also currently popular are dramas that explore familial or faux-familial bonds between men, like Supernatural and the marvelous Breaking Bad (where the two MCs form a surrogate father/son relationship).

[(Anonymous)]

But there's a difference between 'bromance' and a really well-written, complex relationship between two men, imo.

[les-lenne.livejournal.com]

Aww man, I was hoping for this to be a tongue-in-cheek commentary on the annoying "men and women can't be friends!" trope that is still so beloved by writers all over the world.

I am disappoint. :(