[ SECRET POST #2050 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2050 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 114 secrets from Secret Submission Post #293.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

15. http://i.imgur.com/vxKls.jpg

[wolfiemon]

here we go again

[wolfiemon]

I do pretty much agree with the secret though. Even in the comics I believe that he is basically just fated to do the things he does. :\

[got_swagger]

Yeah, no.

[intrigueing]

Don't care.

Like, not even a little.

If it's your "destiny" to murder a bunch of people, just don't do it. Tony and Natasha didn't seem to have any problem going "fuck this" when they decided being evil was a bad thing and neither should Loki, because he is NOT some some mythical figure who's ~deeply in tune with the fabric of spacetime or some Doctor Who shit in the movieverse, he's a super-advanced alien. No1curr if it's his destiny, and there's no indication that he's tied down to it. None whatsoever. So if he gives that excuse, he's a lying coward.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, exactly! Why do people act as if he's a god? None of them are shown having god-like powers, just god-like technology and weapons and what not. None of them are shown to be creator beings or forces of nature or anything. They're just aliens.

Odin and Thor clearly make choices based upon their world experience and dynamic situations. In reality, their personalities are all-too-human. That's where Loki cannot be forgiven--there's no reason for him to murder the shit out of those people. He's a being who can make choices, but he does not choose to make good ones.

[elaminator]

lmao, I love this comment and agree.

[(Anonymous)]

(...)he's a lying coward.

Yes. That's basically Loki. Case closed.

[riddian]

Due to your icon I read this whole comment in Coulson's voice. It was fantastic.

[(Anonymous)]

I have nothing to add, except "he's the chaos guy. He brings the chaos." made me literally lol.

[lilypadhead]

Loki in the comics is an entirely different character than Norse!Loki.
You might as well compare Greek!Hades and the Disney one.

[nyxelestia]

I don't believe any of the destiny type bullshit. In fiction and in real life, it's a cop out.

I do, however, agree with the whole "don't measure him by human standards" thing. Depending on your own beliefs and interpretation, he's anything from an ancient alien to a god. Human standards do not apply to him because he is not human.

[deadtree]

eh, Thor was sent to Earth to learn humility from the humans. So Odin was judging Thor by human standards. If you can judge Thor that way, you can judge Loki that way, even if he IS a dwarf giant and not an Aesir.

[(Anonymous)]

The other Asgardians (including daddy All-Father) judged him by human standards, though, because in the movie they lived by human standards. They were basically long-living humans, not the avatars of concepts. The whole point of Thor was that their problems were human-like problems (jealousy, seeking your parent's love/approval, sibling rivalry, the absence of the father and how that pushes his son down the slippery slope, insanity, etc.), the drama was born from these everyday conflicts, they could have told the same story without the whole alien-princes-fighting with magic-and hey flying Mjölnir stuff and the plot and characters would have remained the same. The Asgardians in the movie weren't like Cthulhu with alien morals and consciousness, they were absolutely, 100% human.

And:

Movie Loki =/= Comic Loki =/= Mythological Loki

[al28894]

Let the wank begin. Or, to quote a character from the crossover comic 'Girls Next Door'...

"Bloodbath... it's gonna be a Bloodbath..."

[(Anonymous)]

I feel like there needs to be a FS drinking game for the Loki secrets alone at this rate.

[(Anonymous)]

He's chaotic-neutral through and through. Now let's put this puppy to rest because it's been beaten to near death.

i am SO DONE WITH THIS BULLSHIT

[wolfiemon]

here is loki making a stupid face

[kitkatlittlebat]

[darkmanifest]

I dunno about that whole destiny business, but Loki's initial motivations in all canons seems to have a very human explanation: For the lulz. He's a troll with an inferiority complex who causes chaos because it's all very hilarious to prove himself smarter than the people around him before it spirals out of his control and he has to fix it before the Asgardians lynch him. He's less about malicious fun and more about manpain in the movies, but again, the reasons for that are human. I've yet to see him doing anything unfathomable.

[(Anonymous)]

Thor and Odin, who are also not human, judged Loki's actions as well. Ergo, human standards aren't that different from Asgardian ones.

The End.

[loki]

"In all canons, he seems to have given birth to an eight-legged horse"
I'm curious as to which canons you're referring to here? Because there are many counterexamples.

In my personal opinion, I think your headcanon is interfering with your perception of MCU!Loki. The Asgardians are given very human motivations and personalities, and in a Doylist sense, their moralities presented to the viewer are by human standards as well. There is a sense that there is a rational explanation for everything they do, even Loki. Nowhere has predestination been raised yet, though there is a Shakespearean sense of inevitability that is present in tragedies about those whose bad characters cause them to fall, human or not.

I agree that especially in the Avengers, Loki is mostly Neutral Evil. Not so chaotic, apart from his enjoyment of the screaming fleeing Germans. I personally am really gunning for Chaotic Neutral Loki in the next Thor movie, but we'll see.

[(Anonymous)]

…But he didn't give birth to an eight-legged horse in every canon.

It was never discussed in the comic books or the movies.

In the comic books, he was implied to be the Father of his children (which included, Hela, Jormungandr, Fenrir and Vali), but Sleipneir was never counted as one of them, despite the fact he did appear from time to time. I guess that fluid sexuality+transexuality+implied bestiality is just the line Marvel wouldn't cross.

In the movie Loki was never mentioned to have any kids.

[omorka]

Why would we not judge a god by human standards? They're the only ones we have. Besides, most mythologies have the gods giving us many if not most of those standards; if they didn't want to be held to them, they shouldn't have given them to us.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not going to get into the mythological debate, since the Marvel Movieverse and the MCU are too different from the myths to matter.

In the MCU, it's made quite clear that, while the cycle of Ragnarok always plays out, each incarnation of Loki chooses the actions he takes. The result may be similar each time, but he does have considerable freedom of choice.

Initially, he started out as the 'God of Mischief,' but his resentment of Thor/Odin/Asgard eventually twisted him into a 'God of Evil' whose sole purpose is to cause as much pain and misery as he can. In various MCU incarnations, he chooses to do things that are completely prickish (wearing Sif's skin and trapping her spirit in the body of an elderly woman, killing Baldur, manipulating Odin into adopting him by appearing to him as Bor, murdering Laufey, unleashing bedlam on Midgard, whatever.) He may realize he's gone too far, but remorse happens after the fact. He lacks the compassion, empathy, and love required to not be an asshat in the first place.

That's why I'm intrigued with the current 'Kid Loki' incarnation. Here, we have a chance to see whether or not Loki is truly shackled by Fate, or if he's tied to his supposed destiny by chains he forges himself through envy, bitterness, and hatred.

As for movie!Loki, while he may be a tragic villain in some ways, he could have chosen a different path. He could have privately spoken to Odin about his misgivings surrounding Thor's coronation. He could have gotten upset when he learned he was adopted, manned up, and decided to prove that Frost Giants weren't monsters through his own actions, instead of flying off the handle like a toddler. He didn't have to try and destroy Jotunheim. He didn't have to let go of Gungnir and tumble into the Void.

This freedom of choice is what makes Loki and interesting character in the MCU, since there's always the possibility he can make the right choice and change his own fate. It makes a redemption arc possible, however unlikely. He'd be boring otherwise.