[ SECRET POST #2137 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2137 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 015 secrets from Secret Submission Post #305.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

01. http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2550/50twisecret.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

Better writing can save a lot of things, and, Spaghetti Monster have mercy on us, Twilight has better writing than Fifty Shades of Grey.

[(Anonymous)]

You know, I wouldn't have thought it would be possible to be worse than Twilight, but then 50 Shades came along. I couldn't even force myself to finish them (50 Shades), though that's very rare for me.

[veronica_rich]

It's like, having to admit this is what opens the portal to an alternate dimension, isn't it? LOL

[unicornherds]

I suppose at least you know and admit your hypocrite status?

[(Anonymous)]

I agree OP.

[(Anonymous)]

I guess the line of thinking is that Edward gets away with his crap because Bella is in awe of his vampirism and he's forgotten how to act like a human?

Meanwhile, creepy rapist Christian Grey is 100% mortal non-super-powered human. People like him? They exist.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh damn, he's a rapist too? Never read the books, but I'm aware of some women I know proclaiming him to be their "dream guy," so this disturbs me. What does he do, exactly?

[kallanda_lee]

Hmm, sort of the same?

I mean, yeah, with Bella and Edward, it's problematic, but indeed he's not human and Bella's very young, so you have two people who don't really know what a healthy relationship is in the first place.

Also, I don't think it's so much glorified in the medium itself, so you can have your own interpretation (the author idealizes the relationship, but you can disagree).

Now correct me if I'm wrong, because I haven't read 50 Shades, but from what I heard from friends it sorts of presents itself as a r/l bdsm-ish relationship (which should be consensual) but it's really not, and it's pretty much abusive and unbalanced.

[fadeinthewash]

Edward kind of has a clue. At least, he seemed aware of how fucked up he was being back in the first book, except he just decided 'whatever, I'm not going to try being a decent person with regards to Bella anymore.' ...which just makes it worse how he deliberately manipulates her. But then he did try leaving, at least. And Bella should have gone into therapy and self-esteem counseling. But I digress.

Point is, even by normal human standards, Edward acted badly and he recognized it while the actually normal human couldn't. And also their bad relationship proceeds to be vindicated instead of something they grow out of. Digressing again.

[(Anonymous)]

I haven't read the 50 Shades books but from what I know of it, I find it weird that I have friends on Facebook posting things like, "If only Christian Grey was real!" or "Where can I find my own Christian Grey?"

Isn't he really abusive and the book depicts women wanting to be told what to do?

[(Anonymous)]

"I wish Christian Gray was real" bugs me, because I'm sure there are plenty of men like Christian Gray (minus the loads of money and good looks). But if they really want to find an abusive asshole, it shouldn't be that hard (but maybe they only want a super-rich, abusive asshole?).

[(Anonymous)]

Yep, he's abusive. Wanting to be told what to do isn't bad in itself (personal choice etc etc), but Christian basically goes "I like you and will bully you into being my slave despite you being inexperienced! Of course you like being a sub!"

And Anastasia kind of sits there going "Derp...okay."

[(Anonymous)]

Well, he's a ridiculously rich man who's super into a random girl for like NO REASON WHATSOEVER because she has zero personality or life skills. I don't think it's that strange that people want that.

AS for depicting women as wanting to be told what to do...idk, I've only read the first book, but I definitely don't think that's what it says. Ana definitely waffles like hell about the being told what to do and whether she likes it or not and whether it embarrasses her or whether she wants to go through the whole thing or not, and Christian kind of railroads over her about it, but I don't think it's ever really implied that this is something ALL women want.

[miss_yuka]

but he's a vampire. I never expected anything different.

I don't understand, why the low standard for vampires? I'm sure they can do better than that.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, since traditionally vampires kill and eat people...

[stainless]

I must be weird, because Twilight bugs me (though not as much as it bugs some people) but 50 doesn't.

50 to me reads like badfic by someone filling a kinkmeme prompt for BDSM. "Oh, this looks cool, let me look up what it entails. Oh, contracts! One of those should go in Chapter 7!"

It doesn't read as abusive to me so much as it reads as "I've never done BDSM in my life, but the idea is kind of hot. I think I'll make my plot 'someone who is reluctant to try this, but is in love with a sexy mysterious Dom.' Now let me think about the things a sexy mysterious Dom would do, and check the Internet some."

Because it doesn't strike me as anything more than an average-quality to bad fic, it doesn't offend me at all. Or make me worried that women are being duped. They're reading fic for the smut. It just has a cover on it and is made of paper.

[maverickz3r0]

Pretty much this. I should be mad at 50 Shades, I guess, since I actually do practice BDSM to a limited extent, but it's because of that I give it more leeway. I see a lot of fic writers doing things wrong, so to me it's basically just a bad fanfic.

Twilight on the other hand brought this whole mess right into the public eye, and 50 Shades wouldn't exist if Twilight hadn't first. So it bugs me a lot more.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I can totally see this being the way it was written. I just kinda wish people would read the awesome smut that's out there instead of the badfic. (Not that badfic can't be hot. I've read some pretty hot badfic in my time, though I honestly can't say why I like it.)

[(Anonymous)]

No, that's exactly why I find 50 Shades to be so much worse than Twilight.

Twilight's fantasy. Is it bad writing? Yeah. Does it depict an unhealthy, arguably abusive relationship? Well, yeah. But can real people in the real world find themselves an 100-year-old vampire, get married to him at the age of seventeen, have a half-vampire kid right after which an eternally young werewolf will fall in love with, literally magically solving a love triangle? Uh, no. Of course not.

But can real women (and real men) want to get into a BDSM relationship, and not realize their Dom (or Domme) is physically, psychologically, or emotionally abusive until it's much too late? Yes, and unfortunately it does happen. 50 Shades contributes to the problem because-

Here. I would be perfectly fine reading every single line and action in that book (albeit maybe with better writing) as long as those lines and actions were presented as a roleplay between two consenting people. But it's not. It's presented as a safe, loving relationship, and it is very much not.

I've used this analogy before, but I like it: 50 Shades feels to me, as a sub, as if Christianity were a smallish subculture, I was a Christian, and E. L. James had convinced large quantities of people that the Christian god demanded a symbolic human sacrifice every Good Friday. Twilight, on the other hand, just makes me shake my head and wonder what the world is coming to that this is a bestseller, largely because no one will ever find themselves in the situation described in Twilight.

I guess what I mean to say is that, no, anon, you're not a hypocrite. A fantastical relationship that is problematic is nonetheless less problematic than one that can happen in real life - and 50 Shades presented one that is more problematic, because BDSM can and often does have a higher level of at least physical danger inherent in it than a vanilla relationship.

[velvet_mace]

Yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about it, nonny. For the women who find it "romantic" it's just a roleplay scenario.

[(Anonymous)]

It bothers me a little less if I see it as something that was meant to just hit people's kinks.

[(Anonymous)]

Wasn't 50 Shades originally an AU Twilight Fanfic? So the character traits are somewhat similar, only without the illusion.

IMHO if the fact that he is a vampire is enough to make his behavior forgivable, it is kind of hypocritical. Of course, I don't really care either way what other people think of this stuff.

But to me, unless the fiction clearly demonstrates a behavioral or moral difference between the species (which Twilight doesn't), the characters should be held to the same standards as a human.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think you're hypocritical at all. Fifty Shades is terrifying, because it's so bad, because the controlling manipulation is part of the romance and presented as caring and sexy. It disgusts me, and that isn't even taking the D/s fail into consideration.

[truxillogical]

Ah, yes. Isn't 50 Shades of Grey the one where the guy tells her he has to abuse women he's in relationships with because they remind him of his "crack whore of a mother?" And it's the one where they're in a very poorly written, unhealthily inaccurate version of an S/M relationship?

Look, Twilight is still creepy. The romance is awkward, not terribly healthy, and a bit disconcerting.

50 Shades is just messed. UP.