[ SECRET POST #2413 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2413 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 078 secrets from Secret Submission Post #345.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

10. http://i.imgur.com/jBZMn7k.jpg

[helenadax]

Really? I hate both of them but it's a different kind of hate. I always enjoy Cersei's scenes but Ramsay is too digusting to me.

[(Anonymous)]

too many people romanticize ramsay as it is, what are you complaining about? and to be completely fair, cersei is horrible but she isn't ramsay horrible. of course, not many characters are.

[(Anonymous)]

Nobody romanticizes Ramsay, they like him because he's unrepentantly despicable.

[(Anonymous)]

this.

[visp]

A Ramsay secret, using that damn picture, no less, and it's not even a 6 on the creepy scale! Will wonders never cease?

I disagree, btw, her actions aren't nearly as reprehensible as his, and her stans don't gush nearly as bad, but you get points for not having a dog reference.

[(Anonymous)]

The only difference between Ramsay and Cersei is Cersei will have someone do it for her. She won't torture innocent women but she'll have Qyburn do it for her.

[(Anonymous)]

lol at you implying that Ramsay's "stans" gush over him more than Cersei's do.

Ramsay doesn't have any "stans" at least in the basic definition of the word like Cersei does.

[(Anonymous)]

Morality-wise I'd place Cersei in the same category as Roose Bolton rather than Ramsay. She's a nasty piece of work, but sadism for its own sake isn't her primary motivation.

[fauxkaren]

Cersei is not a good person and she's done some awful things.

But Ramsay is on a whole other level of evil.

Also I think it helps that Cersei has a POV so the readers can kinda understand her more.

[visp]

Please let there never be a Ramsay POV.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think the two are comparable levels of evil, but I think a female Ramsay would attract some stans.

...a female Ramsay in that culture would have to be hellaciously effective to get away with breaking all the gender norms in addition to all the social norms/basic moral tenets male Ramsay already stomps all over, especially since I don't think female inheritance is the norm? Like, female Ramsay would have to do it backwards in high heels. I wouldn't like female Ramsay any more, but I'd be more impressed.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know anything about female characters, but doesn't fandom tend to
"leather pants" male characters more often than female characters?

[nightscale]

I like them both(in the sense that I find them to be interesting characters) but because they're horrible people who have done horrible things, though I would consider Ramsay worse because the shit he pulls is a whole nother level of effed up.

[transcriptanon]

[Picture is art of Cersei Lannister and Ramsay Bolton from the TV show "Game of Thrones" and book series "A Song of Ice and Fire". Cersei is a woman with light olive skin, long, curly blonde hair wearing an expensive diadem and collar made of gold and with red gemstones, and wearing a fine red dress. Behind her is the image of two lions standing up as part of a shield or emblem. Ramsay is a man with pale skin and long, stringy, dark hair, reaching his shoulders. He is wearing a brown robe. Behind him are two identical images of a person without skin.]

Some of Cersei's stans make me think that Ramsay Bolton would be considered a "flawless Head Bitch In Charge" if he was a woman.

[iceyred]

Cersei is a broken, paranoid, disturbed, and twisted individual with a notable lack of morals, empathy, or ability to think clearly.

Ramsay is just....sick. And frightening.

They are totally different characters. How do you judge the fans of one by the fans of the other?

And who the hell thinks Cersei is flawless? She's a horrible person.

[miarrow]

Ramsay already has stans.

And I would never put those two in the same wheelhouse. Like Cersei's not a great person, but she's up in the same sub-bracket as the rest of the players that are dudes (Dany's done some gross stuff too, but nowhere near to that level). I honestly think the majority of Cersei fans get "stanny" because of the instant backlash against her that isn't directed to similarly bad male characters.

Ramsay and the Mountain are probably the worst people in the entire books, though.

[(Anonymous)]

I like Cersei as a character because she's complex and paranoid and delusional. She's not pure evil, although she is severely messed up and by no means a good person.

Ramsay is just a psychopath with basically no redeeming qualities, so I don't find him that interesting.

[blitzwing]

You know, we haven't been shown anywhere near as much Ramsey as we have Cersei. Maybe if it was the other way around, and certain select bits were all we saw of Cersei, her absolute worst actions (i.e only her murdering Robert's children, having people tortured) without any of the humanizing traits (struggle against misogyny, love for her children and brother, her living in a forced marriage and raped), people would see Cersei as as bad as Ramsey.

But since Ramsey is male, an heir, and his home situation seemed okay, it's reasonable to assume that he has no reason whatsoever for being the way he is. He's been shown no humanizing traits whatsoever. He is not shown being capable of even twisted love for anyone that I can remember. If Cersei and he were simply gender-flipped without any backstory being changed, I'm pretty sure most people would still see Ramsey as monstrous, because Ramsey is deliberately portrayed to come across as completely inhuman and without positive traits.

And Cersei would be the new Loki.

[(Anonymous)]

If Ramsay was a girl people would say she's misunderstood because her father raped her mother and she's a bastard and etc.

[(Anonymous)]

I think the Cersei apologists and stans are ridiculous too (though I do like her character and find her interesting) but you know what? it's almost kind of nice to have people leather pantsing female characters instead of male characters for a change. A while back, it seemed like pretty much everyone bashed female characters and hurled ridiculously sexist slurs at them just for breathing near their precious male characters (oh, Relena Peacecraft...) while the men had dozens of people rushing to excuse their horrific acts because they were attractive. Of course, people have now taken it too far in the other direction (like with Ceresi. And Regina. Good God, the Regina stans...) but still, it's an interesting change of pace.

[(Anonymous)]

I read this as Gordon Ramsey instead of Bolton Ramsay at first.

It made the secret better, tbqh.

[(Anonymous)]

Sort of agree. The Tumblr fandom (and the Cersei stans therein) have convinced me that if Ramsay were a female sadist who hunts, rapes, and flays men as a pastime, he'd probably be beloved by all over there. And if Theon were female there definitely wouldn't be any jokes on Tumblr about his genital mutilation, "he deserves to get beaten, raped, and flayed", or shipping him with Ramsay. But OTOH, the misogyny on Westeros.org would be off the charts.

This fandom really has a weird dichotomy of being both misogynist and misandrist depending on where you are.

[rbhudson]

Pardon me but aren't people already saying that about him? lol

[(Anonymous)]

I FUCKING HATE CERSEI STANS!!
Not all of them, but the ones that woobify her and think that she can do no wrong and completely ignore her break up with Jaime (*cough*thetumblrfans*cough*).
FUCK!
OH SHIT, AND IF THEY DO ACKNOWLEDGE THE BREAK UP, THEY DON'T ACKNOWLEDGE TO IT'S FULL EXTENT. LIKE;

"IT'S OKAY. JAIME WILL COME BACK TO HER ONCE HE KNOWS WHAT DANGER SHE'S IN. HE'S JUST A LITTLE ANGRY. WHY DID HE THROW HER NOTE AWAY, THAT WAS SO HORRIBLE?!?!?! HE WAS PROBABLY JUST PROTECTING HER BECAUSE TRU LUV."

NO. NO, HE KNOWS WHAT DANGER SHE'S IN. HE ACKNOWLEDGES THAT SHE MAY HAVE BEEN PUT TO DEATH BY THE TIME HE RETURNS TO KING'S LANDING, AND HE STILL DOESN'T FUCKING RETURN.

ARGH, I JUST...THEY PISS ME OFF SO MUCH!