[ SECRET POST #2481 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2481 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.
[game of thrones]


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02.
[Star Trek, Sleepy Hollow, Elementary]


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03.


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04.
[Junjou Romantica]


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05.


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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

























06. [SPOILERS for Percy Jackson]



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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]


























07. [WARNING for suicide/self-harm]

[Slipknot]





















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #354.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

>left such a virulently negative impression on readers
Speak for yourself. I've read enough japanese porn to tell when the author is showing them really against it and when they're only being tsundere.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh my god, you are such a stereotypical yaoi fan drinking the Kool Aid it physically pains me. Newsflash: the uke being "tsundere" is the no. 1 symptom of smoke and mirror covering sexual assault.

[(Anonymous)]

Says the stereotypical tumblrite spouting tumblr-like bullshit.

[(Anonymous)]

If that's what tumblr thinks then I gotta side with tumblr on this one. Yaoi has been plagued with gross tropes forever, and everyone knows it.

[(Anonymous)]

You find them gross all you like, it doesn't make them any "damaging" or "problematic" as if japanese porn manga (since I'm including hentai too), generally speaking, were ever supposed to be 100% realistic in the first place.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

How is romanticizing rape and sexual assualt not problematic in your opinion? Geniunely curious.

[(Anonymous)]

>Geniunely curious.

When people say this they're never genuinely curious.
Junjou isn't even about romanticizing rape and all that bullshit people come up with. The actual relationship between Misaki and Usami didn't start there, but at the end of volume 1 when Usami opened up for the first time. It grew from there, and it's a very beautiful relationship. I think what happened at the beginning of the volume was simply already forgiven by Misaki by the time Usagi apologized, and I respect Misaki's decision.

As for actual romanticizing rape and sexual assualt? I can name only very few series that do that, like Okane ga nai, and while I really don't like that series I'm not so dumb not to understand that it's just a piece of japanese fiction. You may have noticed that for all the demonizing yaoi gets, western authors have kept their own tropes, and tsundere in the bed either don't appear or are very different from their japanese counterparts. Maybe because most people have common sense and realized they were reading a piece of japanese fiction too. That's why I always roll my eyes when people say "problematic" like they're soccer moms trying to ban videogames.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, you certainly disagree with most of the people in this thread about what Junjou does or does not do. I, on the other hand, find the depiction of forgiveness in itself quite offensive, as if the offender "opening up" and turning out to be a pure, beautiful soul suddenly makes the ugliness of past action go away. The character isn't a real person, his "decision" is just a reflection of the author's belief.

So because western media also has problems, we should let yaoi off the hook? Why not criticize both, if there are flaws all around? Why this insistence on Japanese fiction being just fiction, as if it's special somehow? Fiction is fiction; if it has issues, people will point it out. If you don't think romanticizing sexual assault and excusing it is problematic, that's your call, but I will never be on the same page.

[(Anonymous)]

>I, on the other hand, find the depiction of forgiveness in itself quite offensive, as if the offender "opening up" and turning out to be a pure, beautiful soul suddenly makes the ugliness of past action go away.

In-series, that's not for you to decide. You're projecting your own beliefs on him now, also I completely disagree with you.

>The character isn't a real person, his "decision" is just a reflection of the author's belief.

Then why does everyone treat him as if he were a real person?

>So because western media also has problems, we should let yaoi off the hook? Why not criticize both, if there are flaws all around?

Dude. When I have said anything about problems? If anything I've pointed out how all your "problematic" stuff turned out to be much less "problematic" than you make it out to be.

>but I will never be on the same page

Don't worry, I'm not going to lose sleep over that.

[(Anonymous)]

Because you can't seem to see that when people read these things, they don't just say, "Oh this is rape fantasy, I know it's gross but it isn't real". They come in all, well, like you: "This isn't rape, it's romantic and ~tsundere~. He actually liked it, you see."

da

[(Anonymous)]

I've never read the canon myself, but if it's true that the character himself says it wasn't rape, then it isn't rape. That's not the reader making assumptions or justifying it, that's the character themselves coming out and stating that it was not in fact rape.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

It doesn't work because, unlike real life, the readers have already been invited to witness the incident and draw their conclusion. The depiction gave them the clear impression that this is sexual assault, so having the character deny it after the fact isn't convincing.

[(Anonymous)]

In Misaki's case, yes, that's exactly it.
But I'm still able to say that it's still a fantasy and most people are not Misaki, nor act or think the way he does. I don't mean it in a bad way either, since I admire how kind-hearted and selfless he is, but hey - he's still an anime character.

[(Anonymous)]

So if it's all just fantasy and none of it matters, then why are we having this conversation at all? Assuming you posted the secret, this is apparently supposed to be about your love for the characters and how you believe that the fact their relationship grew should negate what people believe to be an act of rape. Obviously, you care about people's perception of this series. The problem is that others really do think a) it was rape and b) the later development doesn't change squat. Are you now changing your argument to, "Okay but it's just fantasy, get over it"? Because that's a different conversation.

[(Anonymous)]

This is really gross. It's a really damaging trope for a fucking reason, but get down with your bad self.

[(Anonymous)]

How is it damaging? Certainly you are able to tell the difference between reality and fiction?

[(Anonymous)]

Fiction that romanticizes sexual violence is criticized all the time.

[(Anonymous)]

So are videogames that let you shoot people. And critics of both are equally thought as idiots who can't tell the difference between what is real and what isn't.
And I don't even see Junjou as romanticizing sexual violence.

DA

[(Anonymous)]

I hate when people try and pull in FPS violent games with defending sexual violence in games. You see it all the time trying to derail or defend sexism and sexual violence and I'm just tired of it.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

That's because you don't want to admit there's no difference between the two and what works for one argument works for the other as well.

[(Anonymous)]

Right, because the violence in video games that serves to give people adrenaline highs are so realistic and true to what that kind of violence would be like in life. But how do you "de-real" sexual assault? Why would you derive a high from even a simulation of it?

da

[(Anonymous)]

you do realize that rape fantasy is one of the most common sexual fantasies that women have, right?

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

Do we have these fantasies while believing that it's normal and romantic?

[(Anonymous)]

>But how do you "de-real" sexual assault?
You're seriously asking this while talking about fiction?

[(Anonymous)]

Again, this is about the demerit of fiction that normalizes and even romanticizes sexual assault.