[ SECRET POST #2666 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2666 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #381.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[darkmanifest]

Wasn't Tyrion forced to rape his wife Tysha way back when? I mean, unless they changed that in the show or I have my characters confused or something.

[(Anonymous)]

Yep, he was.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm conflicted about that, because he was so young and had so little control of the situation.

[darkmanifest]

Tysha had no control, either, she was still raped regardless of who was forcing Tyrion to do it.

[(Anonymous)]

Nevertheless, this is a conversation about Tyrion's morality, so his circumstance, motivation, and degree of control matter.

Compare with Ramsay's victimization of Theon and Jeyne.

[darkmanifest]

I thought it was a conversation of what Tyrion actually did, not the extenuating circumstances of why he did it. I'm not condemning him for the horrible situation Tywin forced him to participate in, I'm not saying he should have been punished for it like the willing rapists that Tywin and the guards were, but he did rape her. From Tysha's perspective, violated by a dozen people without her consent, Tyrion was probably just one more.

And frankly I'm getting a little weirded out by how many people are climbing out of the woodwork to completely ignore the horror Tysha endured to tell me about poor Tyrion's feelings.

[(Anonymous)]

I totally anticipated, the moment I typed that comment, to be rebutted with, "You're ignoring the victim's feelings to defend the rapist!" This is going pretty much along the lines of every Internet conversation about Tyrion ever.

And yet it still doesn't change the fact that this thread is about Tyrion's morality, since it responds not only to a secret about his perceived "goodness" but also to a comment vouching for his character. That comment's reasoning is, "He's no rapist," and your counter is, "He did in fact rape someone". The counter-counter, "The circumstances of that event make me conflicted," is neither irrelevant nor categorically refuting your statement. Tysha's feelings? Nobody is denying she was raped. But it absolutely matters, in this particular conversation, to stipulate that Tyrion was unwilling, coerced, and only 13 when her rape happened. Why are we talking about Tyrion's feelings? Because this entire thread is about them, his feelings and what he does with them and what kind of a person that makes him.

[truxillogical]

I dunno, it was definitely rape, but I feel like both of them were the victims. He's a kid who knows his father can kill him (and would love the excuse), he's absolutely terrified and he's basically forced into a sexual act that he does not want to do. That's rape. I mean, his wife had it even worse, but I just can't see him as the rapist in that scenario. Tywin, by proxy.

[darkmanifest]

I never said he wasn't a victim - you can be a victim and a victimizer at the same time. Tyrion raped Tysha, he didn't want to, but he did. I'm not thinking of it from Tyrion's point of view, but from Tysha's.

[(Anonymous)]

From her prospect she would have been thinking about the actual person in control. They were both forced into it. (I'm not sure how clear that book makes it though.)

Like in The Butterfly Effect that little boy and girl were being forced to have sex by their father. The brother wasn't raping the sister. The father was the rapist, even if he wasn't involved in the actual sex. The sister never blames the brother, because they were both in the same situation. The boy was being raped, too.

[(Anonymous)]

Um that makes Tyrion a rape victim too....

[darkmanifest]

Yes, it does. Him being a rape victim doesn't magically make what he did to Tysha not rape.

[(Anonymous)]

It doesn't make it not rape, but it does make him not the rapist. He was the instrument of his father's crime, not the willing perpetrator of his own.

Tywin raped Tysha. He just did it with someone else's dick.

[(Anonymous)]

If you're forced to rape someone, then aren't you...also being raped?

[(Anonymous)]

Men can't get raped. They're perpetrators of rape.

[(Anonymous)]

Hey rad fem!

How's life been treating you?

[(Anonymous)]

OMG, look for an exit sign and then take it. You are adding nothing to this discussion besides, I almost hope, trolling.

[darkmanifest]

Yes, I think so. The question was if Tyrion ever raped someone, and he did. He was also violated himself at the same time.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't forget he raped a whore in the books. I think it was in ADWD but not sure.

[(Anonymous)]

it was

[(Anonymous)]

Ah, thanks for confirmation.

[(Anonymous)]

the way you are trying to stick this point is making me, a survivor, feel really uncomfortable and upset, for what that's worth

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sorry about that, anon. Is there something particular that's upsetting you about this conversation?

[darkmanifest]

I apologize for that. I've heard the point from survivors before that a victim can also be a victimizer, which is part of why I'm sticking to it. If you have the energy to tell me why it's wrong, I would really appreciate it - I won't drag you into a further argument about it, just absorb what you tell me and leave it at that. But if I've made you too uncomfortable to do so, I understand, and I will try to figure out on my own why it might be wrong.

[dantesspirit]

After she had been gang raped by the Lannister guards, yes. And Tywin forced Tyrion to pay her for it. }:/

Tyrion briefly mentions it early on in the show (late season one or possibly season two)but that was it.