[ SECRET POST #2946 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2946 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 038 secrets from Secret Submission Post #421.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Confessions

[(Anonymous)]

I get annoyed when people equate hatred of religions to a form of racism.

Religions are IDEAS, not immutable characteristics. And yes someone might have been raised to believe their religion very strongly, but the same is true of Republicanism and other political beliefs and it's perfectly fine to call those into question.

I HATE religions -- I think they're terrible, on par with the anti-vax movement. People are free to have their beliefs and practice them. But that doesn't mean that I have to hold my tongue and not criticize their (in my opinion) idiotic beliefs.

And trying to paint me as some sort of bigot for simply saying that I think your beliefs are stupid makes you an asshole.

Re: Confessions

[herpymcderp]

Racism is an idea, not an immutable characteristic.

Re: Confessions

[(Anonymous)]

I'm saying that racism is hatred based on immutable characteristics -- skin color, facial features, etc.

Hatred of religions is hatred of IDEAS. Hating a religion is hating a belief. Like how people are perfectly fine with hating anti-vaccine proponents (which is also a belief/idea) and thinking they're fucking morons. Which they are.

Re: Confessions

[herpymcderp]

Eh, but that's not really what racism is about. It's not just about skin color, it's about ideas and stereotypes about race.

This is just kind of a dumb argument though.

Re: Confessions

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I think their point is that race itself is an immutable characteristic, while religion is an idea. A person can change their religion, while changing their race is a little more difficult without a lot of money for a lot of surgeries. Hating someone for one is a little different to hating someone for the other.

Re: Confessions

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think you're a bigot but I don't think your position is anywhere close to reasonable.

And I do think that there's some sense in which you have at least a weak obligation to hold your tongue, viz common politeness.

Re: Confessions

[(Anonymous)]

I don't hate the PEOPLE though, I just hate their beliefs.

I have a dear friend who's Republican. And though I love him dearly and think his heart is in the right place, some of his stances on economics are fucking idiotic and, when he talks about them, I certainly don't just nod my head and agree.

Re: Confessions

[(Anonymous)]

what i mean is that I don't think it is reasonable to say 'religious belief is idiotic'

and secondarily, that there are situations where it is very impolite to say that

Re: Confessions

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think you can compartmentalize hate like that. Hate is something the festers and grows. It starts of "hating the idea" and eventually grows into hating the person.

I think you should just learn to accept that some people believe differently than you do and that's okay.

Re: Confessions

[mekkio]

I'm Catholic and I don't dig the certain religions = race. UNLESS you have ones like Coptic Christians where a certain ethnic group adopted a branch of religion and kept it within that ethnic group. But those are super, super rare. 99% of religions aren't like that.

Like I am tired of Islam = brown people. There are over a billion Muslims on the planet. The majority of which aren't Arabic or Persian but East Asian like Indonesian. To erase them to fit your narrative is insulting and racist in itself.

Re: Confessions

[(Anonymous)]

Holy shit, Indonesia is so far from East Asian that's not even funny. You did mean Southeast Asian, right?

Also it's totally race linked here. I'm pretty sure 'Malay' counts as brown, unless I'm seeing the skin colour of everyone around me wrongly. I'll grant that there are different branches of Muslim, but religion is part of culture and culture is very much tied to race and ethnicity. You can't just separate out the two like that. 99% of Malays in Singapore (and Malaysia and Indonesia) are Muslims. To be 'of a certain race' here is basically to have the religion that comes with that race.

I mean I get what you're saying. People shouldn't think all Muslims are like one particular race, there are various ethnicities that have adopted it as their own. But you can't just be like religions =/= race when they do to a huge extent in certain parts of the world.

Re: Confessions

[mekkio]

In the US we are taught everything East of India is considered East Asian. Yes, you can be more specific and say Southeast Asia but it is still East Asia and not the Middle East. And no, they wouldn't be considered brown but Asian, again, at least when you are talking in American terms. Brown is Arabic, Persian, Pakistani and Indian. Not Malaysian.

For example, these Malaysian women would not be considered brown but Asian.

Re: Confessions

[sarillia]

I agree with you in theory but in practice it gets a little more complicated because some religions are highly associated with race and the criticisms of those religions can veer into the territory of stereotypes about the race they're associated with. I'm not saying that these religions can't be criticized, just that sometimes it's best to be careful.

Re: Confessions

[iceyred]

You're free to think my beliefs are stupid. It doesn't bother me any which way.

But if you start following me around blathering about how my beliefs are stupid then we're gonna have a problem.

Re: Confessions

[(Anonymous)]

No, I get that. I think militant atheists that go and harass people on, say, religious online forums are dicks.

But I'm not going to treat your beliefs as sacred. To me, they're the equivalent of the anti-vaccine movement. I don't respect them and I think they're full of crap.

If you want to believe that, though, it's completely up to you. I just don't particularly appreciate being called racist because of it.

Re: Confessions

[iceyred]

For what it's worth, I think militants of any flavor tend to be dicks.

It's your right to believe whatever you want, be that in God, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or nothing. As long as you respect my right to believe whatever I want and don't harass me, we're golden.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

You said it best.

Secondly, this is for the OP of this debate: I'll respect someone who does not believe as long as they respect that I do believe even if you think it's dumb. Say it's dumb all you want on the street, but if you come into my church and start talking about how stupid it is, I will turn around and tell you to get out of God's house and make your mockery of it outside.

Re: Confessions

[(Anonymous)]

I technically agree, at least in the sense that religions should not be owed any respect by default, even though we should do our best to respect the people who practice them. I also have a lot of problem with mainstream religions and how they are often practiced.

But I think religion isn't always, or even usually, simply about someone's idea. It's also a culture. Now, I don't think bad elements of culture should automatically be respected or tolerated either, but it's just important to note that religion is often much deeper than simply the actual beliefs. And because of that, it is often unkind to throw out any possibility of sensitivity or empathy. Bad beliefs don't have to be "respected" but I think there's a line of common courtesy.

Re: Confessions

[(Anonymous)]

Just to clarify, I'm not going around shouting at people "YOU"RE A MORON FOR HAVING A RELIGION! WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU? REPENT!"

I made this confession because I was called a racist for saying I don't respect Islam. But I don't respect any religions. At all.

It was related to Charlie Hebdo. I said that Muslims have the right to be upset about the disrespect towards their religion. But people have the right to ridicule it as well.

Apparently, saying that is "racism" -- which I think is a pile of horseshit.

Re: Confessions

[(Anonymous)]

Religion is a bit more complicated than that, though. It intertwines with culture. So there are many parts of the world where people ARE oppressed on the basis of holding a particular religion or set of beliefs.

There are religious minorities in this world. It isn't as simple as "religion = powerful hierarchy of old dudes" and "anyone not religious is oppressed." Sometimes it can be the reverse. Sometimes it can be more like "cultural subgroup harassing other cultural subgroup".

Religions are not just ideas. For some people, they represent entire ways of life. Family ties, stories and mythologies that are passed down, writing and muic. Certain cultural customs and norms. Hell, certain types of foods and festivals.

They may be only ideas to you, but they're so much more than that to many, many people. Even people who no longer believe may still continue to "practice" in the sense that they still have ties to their culture. Please understand this.

You can think they're as idiotic as you want, and you can tell people that, but don't be surprised when a lot of people get offended.

Re: Confessions

[(Anonymous)]

But they're still IDEAS.

And, like I said, I think people do have the right to practice and believe whatever they want. All I ask is that you not ask me to hold your beliefs as sacred. Because I won't.

And, I'm sorry, but just because something is a way of life, doesn't mean it can't be stupid too. Personally (kind of a humorous example), I think that the amount of time and money Americans spend on their lawns is RIDICULOUS. I don't care if it's a tradition -- it's stupid.

People can get offended. But I'm not racist for giving my honest opinion -- that I think their beliefs are dumb.

Re: Confessions

[(Anonymous)]

Well... I think simply saying "I think your beliefs are stupid" makes you an asshole.

Not a bigot. Just an asshole.

Re: Confessions

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you.

Re: Confessions

[(Anonymous)]

not OP but

what is the person believes women should not leave the house without male supervision, and wives cannot be raped? what if they believe that all others are going to hell, and that gay people should be executed? what if they believe that sickness is only a result of lack of belief in god, so they refuse to get their children vaccinations or go to hospitals?

I mean, these are all real religious beliefs. And I personally feel very comfortable and valid in my own system of ethics for calling these beliefs stupid. I'd shout it from a roof guilt-free.

Re: Confessions

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's stupid, too. That's like saying you hate all white people because you don't like the Catholic/Christian faith.