[ SECRET POST #2960 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2960 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Better early than late!

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 034 secrets from Secret Submission Post #423.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I always wonder how people who think authors have the right to take back their works would feel if out became a thing for published works to be recalled. Or how they feel about publishers reacting ebooks. "Oh but that's different! People paid for those books!" Oh, alright. So an authors right to do what they want only lasts until she sells it? Okay.
What about books that are given away? Does an author have the right to take those back?

[(Anonymous)]

why do you feel so entitled to fanauthors' works though?

[(Anonymous)]

Why do you feel entitled to the books on your bookshelf?

[(Anonymous)]

lmao

[(Anonymous)]

Well? Why can't I retract something I put up on Amazon Singles if I don't want it out there anymore? It's my work, shouldn't I be able to do what I want with it?

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I have no idea about Amazon, but my books are all under contract for a specific timeframe.

If I decide not to renew that contract for whatever reason, then my obligation with that publisher and that book ends, and the book is removed from distribution.

I have no idea why Amazon would differ when it comes to your own original copyrighted work.

[(Anonymous)]

Print books do go out of print all the time for a whole host of reasons.

While you can't control what's already out there -- same as fanfic writers can't control it if someone's saved a text/doc/pdf of their fic -- they do have the right to take any future distribution of it offline.

[(Anonymous)]

I've seen a lot of people say saving fics is disrespectful to the author, exactly Because if they take it down, there's still a copy out there. That infringes on the author's right to do as they see fit.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I don't save fics, because I don't see fanfic as anything I want to save. I enjoy them once and move on. I don't reread them anyway.

I know for a fact that people have saved their own copies of my fics and yes, it does make me pretty uncomfortable. By posting fic onto archive sites that don't allow for downloading (i.e. not AO3) then I am not giving anyone permission to do so. I'm giving the access to read, not to copy and/or distribute. I appreciate that almost everyone who does save a copy is only doing it for personal use, but it also means they can reupload something I've explictly said I don't want posted any longer, which would be a very disrespectful thing to do.

[(Anonymous)]

But that's part of the point. When a book goes out of print, all the copies that were made are still out there, and they can be lent out or passed around to new readers, meaning there are people reading them without the author's permission. And this is accepted, because once it's out there, and someone has it, it's out there, and there's nothing you can do about it, and some author saying "I'm uncomfortable because my old books are still at the local library" would be considered ridiculous.

Because that's what it is. Ridiculous. It's not about entitlement, it's about people thinking they can do shit in public and then make it all go away, and whining when hey, whadaya know, that's not how the real world works.

[(Anonymous)]

Your argument is completely disingenous, especially when it comes to print books.

Do you know the lifespan of a regular-lease print book in a library (i.e. a book that can be lent out without any special restrictions)? A couple of years, at the very most. That's why the "pirating is just like a library!" argument is bullshit. Libraries replace books on a regular basis.

If the book is no longer in print, then they cannot do this, and eventually the book goes out of circulation. That's why older out of print books rack up in value.

Publishing contracts can also include recall clauses, so that when books go out of print or out of distribution, all forms of authorized distribution -- libraries, bookstores etc. -- have to return any remaining copies. Depending on the publisher, these either go to the author or to the shredder.

When it comes to ebooks, you don't own the physical product in the first place -- you own a license to access the product, and an author and publisher is equally entitled to retract that permission at any time, whether you've paid for it or not.

It's not about people READING without permission, it's about people sharing, reposting, uploading elsewhere and generally keep distributing the work despite the author saying not to, and general assholish levels of disrespect, and yes, despite what you may think, entitlement.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, totally, how dare a writer think that the people who gladly take all the stuff they produce for free (and fawn all over them as long as the writer's doing what THEY want and providing stuff for them) might deign to show their requests a modicum of respect, that totally doesn't happen in the real world!

[littlestbirds]

This makes no sense. Are you seriously suggesting that not leaving a fanfic instantly accessible on a server somewhere is equivalent to removing a book off your bookshelf?

[(Anonymous)]

No, I'm saying you can't claim ownership to something once you put it out there and give it to other people. You've given up your right to it. It's no longer yours. And this is understood and accepted for virtually everything except media.

[(Anonymous)]

Are you just stupid, or...?

When you buy that toaster, you are buying a single item, the toaster. You are not buying:

a) the design copyright
b) the tech copyright
c) the right to make copies of that toaster and sell them yourself

You are purchasing the single toaster. Like you're purchasing the right to listen to a song, or watch a movie, or read a book. If that company decides to stop making that toaster, there's fuck all you can do about it. If an individual decides to stop distributing your access to their creative product, there's fuck all you can do about that either.

[(Anonymous)]

Are YOU stupid, because I'm talking about someone demanding that you give back the toaster you bought, not suddenly owning a copyright because you buy a toaster.

[(Anonymous)]

Nope, still thinking your stupid because that's a nonsensical leap to make from authors having the right to take down their fics.

[(Anonymous)]

So you'd be fine if someone came and took all your fanfics (or anything else you create) and since you've posted them online you've relinquished all ownership of them so that person can publish them as their own, or sell them, or do whatever they want with it, right? It's not yours anymore after all, so you have no right to say what happens to it at all.

Because by your argument, you shouldn't have any problems with them doing that.

[(Anonymous)]

There's nothing you can do about it once it's out there, unless you've gone through the process of getting protections for it, which you can't do with unlicensed fanworks, which are technically stealing creations from someone else to begin with. But that's besides the point, which is that you can't demand someone give back something you've given to them.

[(Anonymous)]

Ugh, I'm going to go slow here, okay?

By. Sharing. Work. Fanfic. Or. Otherwise. You. Are. Not. GIVING. Anyone. Anything.

You are posting it on a freely accessible platform. The platform itself could go bust. The archive could be shut down. The site may delete your work anyway.

You. Have. Not. GIVEN. ANYONE. ANYTHING.

You literally CAN'T even 'give' anyone fanfic because like you say, it's not yours TO give even if you wanted to, which you can't.

[(Anonymous)]

"Oh, alright. So an authors right to do what they want only lasts until she sells it? Okay."

This is literally how publishing works, you know that, right? The author signs a contract granting certain rights to the publisher in exchange for money. Similar deals can be made granting movie rights of the book, also in exchange for money. Part of the agreement is that because the author signed a contract and took the money, then no, they cannot legall do whatever they want with the work now if it violates that contract.

So if Author X signs a publishing deal with say, MacMillan, then Author X can't turn around and self publish that same book themselves. Going, "But but but some ill informed anon on the internet said it's miiiiiiiiiine!" will not change the fact that this is a breach of contract and MacMillan will not only halt the self publication but sue the pants off Author X.

The idea of authors not having 100% control over their work sucks, I get it. But when an author sells a book, they sell off part of their control over said book. I don't understand how you can talk about publishing like you know how it works when you don't know how it works.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh no, that was part of the point. It's not theirs anymore.

[(Anonymous)]

Right or not, it's gonna happen if you put your works up publically. If you want full control of your stuff, never share it the first place. That's what I do with my art.

[(Anonymous)]

So an authors right to do what they want only lasts until she sells it?

Well, yes. Exactly. That's what selling something means - you are transfering ownership of that thing in return for an agreed upon amount of currency. The thing no longer belongs to you once the transaction is complete.

Fic isn't sold. It isn't even given away. Ownership is never conferred upon the reader. The author's within their rights to delete the fic at any time, the same way you're within your rights to replant your garden even if your neighbour really likes looking at it.

[(Anonymous)]

What utterely self serving pretension.

It's your own fault if you didn't download/save a fic you liked.

Authors can take down their own works and should not have to justify why to anyone.

If you were smart enough to save the fic/buy the book, there you go.