[ SECRET POST #2993 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2993 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 123 secrets from Secret Submission Post #428.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 - pretty sure these are all the same spammer anon trying to win the non-existent "weirdest fandomsecret/sex fantasy" award. There are more I missed, and some that went up yesterday. If one of these is not the same anon, please PM me ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[feotakahari]

I'm not gonna argue the point, but "as an egalitarian" is one step removed from "I'm not a racist, but . . ." Just say what you want to say, and leave off the disclaimer.

[(Anonymous)]

No. It isn't.

[(Anonymous)]

kinda is

certainly, at the very least, many people who use the term do so because they reject specific claims made by people who identify as anti-racist or feminist

i think it's kinda ridiculous to ignore the place the word has in the context of actual political discussions

[(Anonymous)]

I use it because I don't identify as feminist or MRA. I consider both groups to be damaged by the actions of the extremists in both groups. If you can find a word better than egalitarian, I am all ears.

[feotakahari]

If we're going to play the "terrible people use this label!" game, then egalitarian is not a good choice. It's somewhere between a meme and a running gag that if you're talking to someone who wants to be called an egalitarian, you should run away screaming.

(As for a label that ISN'T associated with horrible shit, I'm drawing a blank. "Humanist" is actually worse than "egalitarian." I guess just go without the label?)

[(Anonymous)]

Between feminist, MRA, or egalitarian; I am going to assume the egalitarian is the least shitty person. *shrug*

[diet_poison]

What about extremist egalitarians?

I'm being serious here. There are self-proclaimed egalitarians who act like dicks...just like members of EVERY MAJOR POLITICAL MOVEMENT EVER.

Why do people insist on defining a group by its extremists? >____>

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I was kind of thinking this.

If you insist on dissociating from every movement that has terrible extremists, you're left with pretty much no one to associate with.

[(Anonymous)]

But out of all three groups, egalitarians have the least shitty rep.

[(Anonymous)]

You could just... not subscribe to an ideology with a label and believe what you believe?

[(Anonymous)]

Yes it is.

[diet_poison]

Yeah, I got that vibe too.

It's kind of like "screw feminism; I'm an egalitarian!" It often ends up coming from a place of not being comfortable with complete gender equality (for example, still wanting to put everyone into traditional gender roles, even if they're all for sociopolitical equality) and latching onto their idea of feminism as represented by feminist extremists or their perceived version of man-hatin' feminism.

[(Anonymous)]

Is there a word for someone who supports equality between all races though?

I mean, there's the word "feminist" for someone who supports equality between genders. But for races?

What is it?

I kind of got the impression that OP used "egalitarian" for lack of a better word.

[diet_poison]

I don't think there's a word for that. I've never felt a need to use one, anyway. The secret would have been just fine if they'd just left that part off.

[(Anonymous)]

Or from rejecting the idea that women have a position in society that is absolutely worse than that of men.

Which is, I think more and more, the essential kernel of feminism. Accept that, and all else follows; reject it, and feminism seems like nonsense.

[(Anonymous)]

Feminism is about destroying gender "roles" and believing that men and women are equal. Which benefits both men and women.

[(Anonymous)]

well, sure, but I would say that all variants of feminism that I'm aware of, at least, would agree that gender roles and the patriarchal nature of society is relatively more harmful towards women, and more beneficial towards men. Certainly, that seems to be the assumption that underlies most feminist policy and critique.

I'm not really arguing against the principle, even

[(Anonymous)]

It used to be that. These days, feminism has been usurped by the extreme, psychopathic crowd. There is a reason why only 18% of men and 38% of women identify as feminists. Extremists have ruined its image.

[feotakahari]

A monarchist once told me that I was entitled to my own opinions, but I wasn't entitled to my own facts. Granted, his fact was that bottle-fed babies have lower IQs than breast-fed babies, and his argument was that gay men shouldn't be allowed to adopt children, but the point still stands. If you start from, for instance, the fact that women are less represented in high-paying positions, and you don't go along with that rich male politician who claimed that women want shitty underpaid jobs, then there has to be a question of WTF is up.

[diet_poison]

Not really? I mean I'd argue that if you averaged out the life experiences of every man in the world and every woman in the world, women would definitely have it worse. If you limit it to just the western world, the discrepancy would be much smaller, but still visible.

but the point of feminism isn't oppression olympics, it's specifically targeting and destroying sexism and destructive toxic masculinity, and affording equal social standing and political standing to women - because not all women actually do have that at this point.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

It really is not.

[(Anonymous)]

Just to clarify: Would you say the same if the disclaimer read "I'm a feminist, but"? Like, is the problem the "disclaimer, but (comment that negates the disclaimer)"?

[feotakahari]

Well, yes and no. "I'm a feminist, but" is more associated with things like "I'm a feminist, but I love Barbie dolls," because someone bought into the idea that liking Barbie dolls makes you Bad and Wrong. That can lead in some fucked-up directions, but it's not as immediately run-for-the-hills as "I'm an egalitarian, but."

The most direct comparison is probably "I'm as tolerant as the next person, but," which is usually followed by something painfully intolerant.

Edit, because I feel like it:

[(Anonymous)]

Yo this. In my experience at least, equalitarians are the kind of people who constantly bring up the "but what about men?!" argument whenever possible no matter how little sense it makes, but when actual male issues come up like rape or unhealthy social norms, they'll just ignore it or make jokes or accuse all feminists of bring evil harpies and never so anything productive.

[(Anonymous)]

Sure, but I have also seen a shit-ton of "feminists" who keep bringing up the dictionary definition of "but feminism is EQUALITY" but then turn around and ignore the same things you said egalitarians ignore. So yeah, if we play the "but I've seen this group do this thing", we'll be here all night and then some.