[ SECRET POST #3853 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3853 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 43 secrets from Secret Submission Post #551.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

This thread is going to fucking suck so goddamn much shit

I think the problem with the way you're characterizing this whole thing is that you're looking at it in too black and white a way, where the universe is divided into things that are Good and things that are Bad. And so your model for what 'SJWs' are arguing is that certain kinds of diverse casting are intrinsically Good and certain kinds of non-diverse casting are intrinsically Bad, and so you can talk about 'shifting the goalposts' from casting a woman Doctor being Good to it being Bad.

But I think this is an inaccurate model, both of reality, and of the way that 'SJWs' think about reality. Because of course it's more complex than a situation where everything either is Good or Bad. Casting a woman as Doctor is good in some ways but is not a complete perfect paradisaical uncriticizable decision. Nor would casting a black man or even a WOC be a completely perfect decision, because there aren't perfect decisions. Casting a woman is good in many ways and it's something to be happy about, but it's still embedded in a world that has other problems. And different people are going to react differently and in different ways to things, because they approach it in different ways, and that's mostly okay. And for what it's worth, at least from my personal experience seeing people talk about it, the so-called SJWs have been enormously able to maintain that idea. The perspective I have seen is almost universally that casting a woman is a good thing and people should be happy about it but at the same time it's important to be aware that it's not perfect. That is 100% the attitude that I have seen. And I don't think there's anything problematic about that attitude.

Now I mean if someone wants to come in here bloviating about how actually SJWs are evil and want to destroy Western civilization, fucking whatever, I just don't have time for that kind of delusional nonsense. Believe what you fucking want to believe. I just don't fucking care anymore.

Shit. The fucking goddamn Internet.

[(Anonymous)]

That was a whole lotta words to say, I disagree.

[(Anonymous)]

I thought it might be a good idea to explain why I disagree, rather than letting the thread be 10 people saying SJWs are crazy and 1 person saying that SJWs might not be entirely insane and evil

[(Anonymous)]

Because most people are finally catching on to the fact SJWs are full of it, and they're tired of their locusts with torches act, swarming and burning down everything in their wakes.

And yet there are still a few people, like yourself, apparently, who are still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[(Anonymous)]

Ok

[(Anonymous)]

It always seems that the people who crow about "SJWs" want these very specific parameters for how diversity should happen.

"It's only okay when it calls for it, when there's a reason", like diverse people have a reason to exist IRL.

The people you think are reasonable honestly move too slow. They think they're logical and 'liberal' but they enjoy the status quo too much to want it changed for whatever reason.

[ninety6tears]

I agree with the OP that pissed-off reactions under the performative guise of social justice are inevitable, but you seem like you're just mad that there's still a discussion about these issues at all because not everyone is satisfied to cast the worst of tumblr as the scapegoat for anyone discussing representation at all. I think the discussion is almost killed by irrational standards and double standards and teenagers with shipping bias, but that doesn't mean I won't give ANYONE the benefit of the doubt.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

arent SJWs by definition crazy though? this is like arguing the alt-right aren't white nationalist. if they weren't white nationalist, they wouldn't be alt-right, they'd be 'conservatives.'

unless you're taking SJW to mean everybody with an opinion on social justice, no matter how extreme?

[(Anonymous)]

Sure. Please replace with "People that the Internet dismisses as SJWs might not be entirely insane and evil". I don't think the term is used in a very precise way at all.

[(Anonymous)]

Alt-Right has a much more varied meaning than white nationalist. Some are, sure. But most people who use the term mean it to mean not card carrying Republicans, the sort who are trying to reform the party from within.

SJWs are by definition nuts.

DA

[(Anonymous)]

DA

There's being respectful of differences and there is "everything you say or do is racist / ableist / transphobic / homo-bi-ace-phobic / misogynist / sexist / ageist / something-phobic" being thrown out to derail any further discussion because the person accused has to defend themselves against that and the discussion never gets back to the root of the matter. The SJW then sits back and revels in how "progressive" they are when they didn't solve anything.

The absolute worst SJWs only act behind a computer screen and never do anything substantial for their cause offline. Hey, I'm just generalizing like they generalize. They expect everybody else to do their dirty work instead. Even disabled activists dependent on total care still find a way to get out and do shit. When was the last time anyone saw these militant SJWs do that? The absolute most they do is disrupt rallies and turn into fodder for cringe compilation videos later.

I think OP is tired of seeing everything I show does never be good enough to satisfy the 'craycray' SJWs.

[morieris]

The perspective I have seen is almost universally that casting a woman is a good thing and people should be happy about it but at the same time it's important to be aware that it's not perfect. That is 100% the attitude that I have seen.

Yep. Personally it's fine to be excited, and I don't begrudge anyone, but all these "THE FUTURE IS FEMALE YASSS" with a bunch of white women images shows just how much we're not close to actual equality. It's a step of progress, nothing more.

But those damn SJWs, right.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

That's what I'm seeing.

Personally? I'm going to keep watching Doctor Who, and will probably love it, but I'm a bit leery of "Time Lords are beyond gender" except when they're apparently not.

Edit: And since the term "SJW" has been thoroughly co-opted by right-wing pundits, I can't take it at face value anymore.

[(Anonymous)]

I think generally any term like SJW where you're trying to distinguish between the 'good/reasonable' members of a community and the 'bad/unreasonable', but where there's no hard and fast objective way to distinguish the two groups, is going to be pretty useless. Usually they're going to get coopted in a hot second, and even if they don't, I don't think they really add anything useful to discourse. Even in the best case scenario they seem like they're mostly a way for people to do an if-by-whiskey type thing. A bit two faced.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

It's become a straw man in some circles. Evidently the current conservative pundit talking point is that liberals hate Dunkirk even though few journalists on the left are writing about Dunkirk and those who do are not overly negative.

[(Anonymous)]

It does happen with the term alt-right just the same though. I'm not talking about people calling themselves alt-right: those are always assholes. But the term gets thrown around as well for anyone slightly conservative right now, and used in the same strawman-fashion as SJW is used to try and undermine any liberal POV. Anyone who denies that is wilfully ignorant at best.

[digitalghosts]

Someone needs to google better than me but I swear it is mentioned that time lords have no gender or sexuality (apparently can romance and marry but series loves contradictions). I think it was Ramona who might have said that but not 100% sure.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

The Doctor just said it in the first part of the Mondasian Cybermen story. But then The Master drops a bunch of sexist zingers onto Missy and Bill in the second part.

[lordbaelish]

I'm somewhere in between. I think that media getting to new levels of diversity is awesome! It doesn't mean, though, that we should conform and draw the line at white women, of course -- no social movement is going to get anything done without protest. But small successes are still successes. I think we can recognize what is good about that decision while still agreeing that media, in general, should aim for more diversity.

[erinptah]

Who's making these things with only images of white women?

Because it's not like those are the only options. There's the new Star Trek captain coming up, and the characters from the new A Wrinkle In Time. We've just had a Polynesian Disney princess, and an Asian woman as John Watson, and a fantasy!Inuit woman as the Avatar. The most recent season of Doctor Who had a black lesbian as the companion! Any discussion of race on Who that pretends people weren't excited about her, or acts like she never existed in the first place, has got something skeevy and dishonest going on.

So if people are making "let's celebrate women!" photosets that are all-white, that's a problem of racism. If people are making "why are only these women getting celebrated?" photosets that are all-white, that sounds like a problem of "SJWs" editing out facts that don't fit the narrative they want. (And I've seen at least one case that was definitely the latter.)

[(Anonymous)]

Bill is hardly the first black female companion. It's the lesbian part that makes her different.

Everybody forgets about Martha. -_-;;

[erinptah]

Who said Bill was the first?

People were excited about Martha too. A role going to one black actress doesn't mean we have to stop being excited about any other black actress getting the job. (Any more than Janeway or Rey already leading a major sci-fi franchise means we have to stop being excited for Thirteen.)

Especially if your complaint is "she was hardly the first! She was the second. It's totally meaningless now."

[sabotabby]

This comment is good and you should feel good.

[(Anonymous)]

this comment is far too reasonable for FS

[(Anonymous)]

To be fair, if you want a character that everyone can fangirl/boy over and discuss and cosplay, you have to make that character White.