[ SECRET POST #4431 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4431 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 11 secrets from Secret Submission Post #634.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

02. https://i.imgur.com/kwLW9jE.png

[(Anonymous)]

I'm a straight gal who just can't get into M/M ships because my brain just goes "wait, which one is me? which one's the girl???" so I mostly read M/F or F/F. Weirdly lesbian fic works for me even though I can't see _myself_ ever dating a woman.

IDK, to each their own. Just a reminder that people like me exist. I often feel alienated because of it.

[(Anonymous)]

Meanwhile I have trouble reading M/F even though I'm a straight female because, I think to some extent , I don't want to be the girl. I have too many negative connotations with the idea that I don't want to sort through while reading fic/while in fandom. Unfortunately certain writers can give M/M or F/F ships the sort of dynamic I find uncomfortable in M/F fics too so I'm not really safe from it...but I guess I can understand the feeling of being alienated because of that. Oh well.

[(Anonymous)]

For me, I'm a lesbian who hates m/f and ONLY likes m/m or f/f because I *don't* want to be forced to relate to one of the characters. lol

It's awesome how diverse and beautiful we are in what we wank to.

[(Anonymous)]

See, I just find the entire concept of imagining myself as one of the characters in a ship to be weird. I like the ship because I like the characters in the ship and think they have good chemistry together, I have zero desire to be personally involved in it. M/M, M/F, F/F, it's all good if the characters are into each other because that's the part I find hot.

[(Anonymous)]

Lmao. You can ship whatever you like. Just don’t go whining about it. Saying shit like “Stop forcing me to ship f/f or m/m!!!!!!!1!!1!!” just makes you look like a bigoted idiot.

[(Anonymous)]

So then why do lesbians ship m/m content

[(Anonymous)]

I legit want to know this because every lesbian I've known personally who has written some serious m/m smut can't explain it to me

but as a gay man who is genuinely squicked by ladyparts I can't get into f/f or even het because ladyparts. so why are lesbians who say they're squicked by manparts still writing hot m/m sex? I don't understand. I really don't understand. please xplain. it's not the romance content it's the smut, the dicks in butts.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not a lesbian so even though I feel like I could take a decent stab at answering this, I'm not going to. Because it's really not my place.

But I gotta say, if you don't have some reasonably informed notions about why some lesbians ship m/m content at this point, you must be actively ignoring/avoiding paying attention to what lesbians have to say on the matter. I've never even actively looked for an answer to this question, yet I've seen lesbian women explain it to someone about fifty times over by now.

[(Anonymous)]

Also, why don't straight men ship m/m and why does nobody call them hypocrites about ignoring m/m and liking lesbian porn even though they're not lesbians?

[(Anonymous)]

because men are only likable in theory

[(Anonymous)]

I just like shipping, but I'm 100% lesbian. A lot of ships are equal to me.

[(Anonymous)]

why is it when 'gotcha's' of this argument comes up f/f gets instantly reduced down to porn? you don't have to want to consume smut for a pair to ship them, or even just think they're cute in a general sense.

and given how much of m/m fandom loves to claim they're 'LGBT allies' for shipping two dudes together i absolutely think it's valid to point out that a vast majority of them go completely silent when f/f ships or rep is brought up.

[(Anonymous)]

Nobody has claimed to be an lgbt ally for their ships for years... Except, ironically, f/f shippers. The comment this secret is about is saying straight women have an obligation to ship f/f even if it doesn't interest them. That screams politicising shipping to me.

[(Anonymous)]

I mean, another reason straight women reading or watching genre fiction (let's face it, that's the genre this happens in the most) tend to identify more with the male characters is that

1) Male writers of tv and movies who write male MCs concentrate on men's relationships and relegate women to background noise, sex objects or "guy friend with breasts" and she never really has a plot or motivation that doesn't revolve around a man. His relationship with some guy is treated as much more important and that's where all his big emotional stuff is oriented toward. Hard to identify with the woman when she might as well not be there and she's more of an idea of a girl than a real character.

2) Not only do two named female characters have a conversation that isn't about a man much less often than two men spend literally dying for each other but...I've seen otherwise great movies featuring multiple strong, interesting, complicated women who not only are never alone together or have a real conversation but in group scenes, they don't even speak to each other directly but will address the male characters instead. Hard to build a femslash ship with characters who don't even look each other in the eye when they're allowed to be in the same room and speak words and aren't being murdered for someone else's manpain.

3) I think sometimes what people really want is their ship, the way they want it. They're not as interested as they claim, in anything else.

4) Oh definitely you can support the idea of a lesbian ship in theory, because you like the characters, but if you're a straight woman the porn just isn't going to be as fun to read. And that's okay.

[(Anonymous)]

I don’t think it’s hypocritical but honestly I can’t relate, because as a lesbian I can enjoy m/m porn, m/f porn, and of course f/f porn.

[(Anonymous)]

Isn't the point in that example that well... yeah, them saying "can't relate" is a lie and everyone can see it? The post is calling them out on their bullshit because their shipping is all about the porn rather than what they relate to but they won't say it.

[(Anonymous)]

When reading porny fic, I generally identify with the character whose POV the scene is written from, regardless of what genitals they have. If the POV switches, then who I identify switches. Now, I'm not necessarily imaging my body doing exactly what the POV character's body is doing, especially when they have parts I don't. It's often more like I'm watching the scene and occasionally inserting myself into the character's place but not always fully.

[(Anonymous)]

as a gay man all I see is a valid point in what you quoted. M/M fandom is overwhelming with straight women who write it and when actual gay men have mentioned offhand that they can act weird about getting off on our sexuality there's always been pushback for some reason.

[(Anonymous)]

Or maybeeeee people say the whole can’t relate to f/f because most media depictions of women are flat, uninteresting, unrealistic, objectivisizing, or regulated to the background and the chances of having just ONE well rounded female character in media is rare let alone two as opposed to the many different types of male characters found in fandom.

Personally I hate the idea of putting m/m and f/f against each other. There is “no slash stole 40 cakes from f/f and that’s awful” when honestly the abundance of m/f is the problem that likes to use f/f as a shield/gotcha for homophobia.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm a bisexual woman who isn't interested in f/f because of a reason in another secret in this batch. It's all uwu soft lesbians. I can't relate to that shit AT ALL. Frankly it's alienating and othering. I like the f/f ships that are complicated and flawed, but those are so hard to find these days. Even when the relationship is that way in canon, even if they're UST-addled enemies that try to kill each other, fandom turns it into soft girls doing soft things. And I don't have the time or talent to make my own content. So of course most of my ships are m/m. And luckily I can also relate to that because I'm attracted to men as well.

[(Anonymous)]

My favorite thing is that only straight girls are ridiculed for having utter disinterest in pairings that don't match their sexual orientation. Straight guys and lesbians aren't mocked for not reading m/m, gay guys aren't mocked for not reading f/f, and all gay people are certainly not mocked for not reading m/m.

When the word "girl" is preceded by "straight, white, or cis," you can bet it's misogyny hiding behind social justice.

[dahli]

What if I'm a gay man at heart, huh? HUH?? #triggererered

I agree, OP. I think there's a lot of factors that go from media to fandom perception and representation. But at the end of the day not everyone gets off on the same stuff. Two dudes getting it on (and are are emotionally engaged) sets ablaze my loins. I'm sure there are people who watching to girls, or a guy and a girl getting it on, will also set their loins on fire. At the end of the day people are different on what they get off to and enjoy.

[(Anonymous)]

When fandom normalizes m/m incest or pedophilia, yet still wants to call f/f pairings of any kind boring or something that's hard to relate to... mmmm that's the tea right there. Supernatural and Fullmetal Alchemist, looking right at you as the two biggest offenders over the last ten years.

[(Anonymous)]

What I'd like to have receipts on is the tumblr OP's phrase "can't relate." I very rarely see an m/m shipper literally say that. Whenever this issue comes up, people often say something like "it's just not hot to me, nbd." (Not always, as seen in this thread, but idt I've ever seen it unprompted.)

That tumblr OP is just using a lazy strawman to "expose" m/m shippers as ~lying.