[ SECRET POST #4525 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4525 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 25 secrets from Secret Submission Post #648.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

07. https://i.imgur.com/aKZO00r.png

[(Anonymous)]

What exactly is a fandom gay male gatekeeper?

[(Anonymous)]

Generally, people seem to use it to refer to somebody who attempts to use their identity as a gay man to police the correct way to write and/or ship m/m relationships

[(Anonymous)]

I've never heard of an actual gay man doing this so I guess the cishet girl thing makes sense, lol.

I have seen actual gay men complain about inaccuracy but that's not like, policing fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

Often paired with a very generous serving of accusing them evil fujoshis of fetishising and objectifying poor gay men.

[thewakokid]

"Well, as a gay man I find this ship to be problematic, which makes you and anyone who ships it a homophobe, and if you have a problem with it, then that makes you a straight cis woman arguing about the gay male identity with an actual gay male, so I think it's clear that now the fandom has a responsibility to bully you as close to suicide as possible!"

You know the type, I'm sure.

It's not limited to the gay identity or any fandom. It's "Fandom clout achieved through identity, and wielded against people who don't like me" But a good number of slach writers who pull this shit have been outed as het cis women.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I know the type but I've never run into one that used their identity as a gay man as the club.

Or fake? identity? as a gay man. lol

[(Anonymous)]

Never met one.

[(Anonymous)]

How exactly did all these "guys" get caught lying? I've met far too many gay male gatekeepers to believe it's possible to expose all of them as lying. A good chunk of men in fandom of any orientation are just assholes who think women are dumb.

[feotakahari]

My guess is OP learned something about them that resulted in the conclusion "no real man could possibly be like this." It's like that woman who thought she'd identified a trans woman because no "real" woman wouldn't know how to make hummus quesadillas: https://www.reddit.com/r/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns/comments/7cx2us/terf_logic_irl/?st=jw71mfek&sh=32f2517d

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT—bzuh? What? Forget the idiocy of assuming someone was trans because they didn’t know a specific recipe, “hummus quesadilla” is a fucking bizarre recipe to use as a gotcha. And also sounds gross.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree that gatekeeping is bad.

[(Anonymous)]

I guess I'll be the asshole here because I tend to agree with the "gay male gatekeepers"--and in my experience it's basically never some cishet girl playing pretend (the days of "it's only women who read/enjoy slash/BL" are long over and finding men who participate in fandom is pretty easy). Provided they're not saying things in an overly aggressive way or singling out a specific author or artist for what should usually really be a more general fandom critique, I think there's a hell of a lot to critique in general slash fandom and even more in general BL fandom, and some self-identified "fujoshis" can be pretty insufferable towards actual gay/bi/queer men in fandom. A lot of the stereotypes that come from BL fandom in particular (the rigid "seme/uke" dynamics, the casual dub/non-con, the weepy feminine uke and strong muscular dorito-shaped seme, etc) are kind of gross and it shouldn't be surprising that these things rub many gay men in fandom the wrong way. (Some of it is so over the top that they can almost feel like homophobic parodies of gay relationships.)

It's one thing to simply enjoy reading about, drawing or writing m/m relationships and you can be a totally normal fan while doing this, but when you start carving an identity out of it I feel like that starts to become pretty weird and fetishizing just on its own (it would be creepy as fuck if a guy described himself as a "hardcore lesbian fanboy" and I find the whole "fujoshi" thing just as weird and offputting), and then when you add in a fanatical adherence to things like "BL hierarchy/rules" and shit (nothing like a pointless internet slapfight over how character A would never be a top/bottom because [insert character trait or appearance here that has literally nothing to do with what someone likes in the bedroom]) and I feel like the "gatekeepers" kind of have a point.

[ninety6tears]

I know what you mean. I assumed OP was referring to the kind of gatekeeping that literally says "You shouldn't be writing slash unless you're a gay guy," as there's been an uptick in that lately.

[(Anonymous)]

da.

i'm an asshole too then bc i think gay men in fandom have a point as well.

but slash/BL fandom at large doesn't want to hear it bc most of the ppl in it like to think they're above reproach, but as a lesbian some of the shit i have seen slash/BL fans say make my skin crawl bc it's the exact same kind of language that skeevy, fetishistic het guys have said to me[or i've seen said online] and like.. it's not better just bc it comes from a girl yanno? there are still gay men out there who are seeing what you're saying about them and they GET to be skeeved out by that.

that's not to say i don't think het women can't write m/m stories or porn, but maybe take actual gay men's feelings into consideration when talking about them? and maybe listen when they tell us what tropes/writing choices are homophobic to them?

but largely i think you're right, it's not regular 'i like this thing and it's fun' type fans who are the issue, it's the ones who've made liking slash/BL into some kind of identity so they're stuck unable to evaluate their behavior bc they consider that a personal attack.

tbh i think this is true of anyone who puts too much of their self-identity into a thing, any crit of it becomes insurmountable bc then that's crit of them. when to any normal person it isn't.

da

[(Anonymous)]

I agree. On the one hand, I think "fujoshicourse" is way overblown. On the other hand, there's a bit of stereotyping and fetishism within m/m for straight women that's pretty darn creepy. I'm content to just not read it though.

[(Anonymous)]

How did you find that out? Did you meet them irl then see their accounts? Catch them in a lie?

[(Anonymous)]

TBH, none of that could really prove what OP is alleging to claim anyway

[ninety6tears]

I would bet there are some gay men in fandom who don't often announce that they are gay guys, but with the ones who achieve righteous BNF status, IDK, I do seem to hear about this happening a lot.

Not that gay guys are never uncomfortable with being fetishized, but still.

[(Anonymous)]

why bother saying “cishet” when you’re clearly a terf? just say “heterosexual female larping aidens”

[(Anonymous)]

I was thinking this...

[dahli]

Do not worry, my dear anon. Said people have dropped the "male" part and just outright shame slash fans whether they asked for it or not (spoiler: no one asks to be bashed and/or be guilt-tripped for the things they enjoy because they are that, things they simply enjoy. If they are not causing any real harm to irl people they should be left alone).

[(Anonymous)]

TIL that stereotypes and the rigid adherence to homophobic ones are harmless.

[(Anonymous)]

I was thinking this, exactly. There are just as many women yelling about how being a fujoshi makes you a horrible, gross individual at this point. One artist who draws for a ship I like (two anime boys) always adds the text 'fujoshi don't reblog' under the piece.

I absolutely hate this current trend in fandom now where people think it's all right to shame others for what turns them on, even if they are literally doing everything they can to stay within their own 18+ space with it. The level of guilt they are trying to evoke for feeling perfectly natural things is honestly horrifying to me.

Focus on stereotypes not people?

[(Anonymous)]

Sure, I'll agree that going after individual creators and readers is a waste of time. I'd say that death of the reader goes hand in hand with death of the author.

But there should be some room to criticize stereotypes of queer men's masculinity and femininity as they appear in works.