[ SECRET POST #1615 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1615 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 08 pages, 185 secrets from Secret Submission Post #231.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[violent-aki.livejournal.com]

Can I just leave this here (http://mspaintadventures.wikia.com/wiki/Troll_Relationships)?

Moirallegiance (derived from the three Moirae, or Fates, and the word allegiance) is a process that occurs between a troll and their "moirail". It is a form of guardianship, but it isn't simply about being platonic soul bros forever, see ANDREW'S COMMENT. A troll is compelled by fate to watch over their moirail and keep them in line. Despite the platonic appearance of this role (as we currently understand it) to us humans, trolls consider it a type of ROMANCE. It is one of the two conciliatory relationships, the other being auspistice. Moirallegiance's quadrant is known as the pale quadrant. As it is a redrom, it is linked to pity in the same way that black romance (blackrom) is linked to hate. Moirallegiance is a portmanteau of "moira" (fated) and "allegiance." This kind of relationship may be most similar to the Greek concept of στοργή (STORGĒ), or "like family," which can be defined as "mom shut up i'm not a baby."

So while it is a "romance" in technical terms, it's not one of the reproductive quadrants, and can more or less be equated to platonic friendship in human terms. I think there's a difference (albeit a fine line) between romance and actual sexual attraction, and that's where moirallegiance vs. matespritship comes into play.

Also:

Known moirails:

FEFERI and ERIDAN (Formerly)
EQUIUS and NEPETA
KANAYA and VRISKA
KARKAT and KANAYA (Unconfirmed)
JACK NOIR and DRACONIAN DIGNITARY (Probably not an exact parallel, as Jack Noir seems to despise romance of any kind)

So it's unconfirmed, but still strongly implied, much like Karkat and Terezi's matespritship. Also, I think it's also implied that you can have more than one person in a quadrant at a time. That was never specified, but never denied, either.

ugh ugh SORRY I just get fiercely defensive of moirallegiance cos it's my favorite ;_;

[yucari.livejournal.com]

... I, uh, don't really think a fanwiki is a reliable source, jussayin'. :/

[violent-aki.livejournal.com]

Seeing as it's the largest Homestuck resource on the web outside of the comic itself (that I know of), it's all we really have to work with.

And it's scarily accurate and up-to-date, considering it's JUST a fanwiki. I probably wouldn't understand about half the comic without it.

[majutsukai.livejournal.com]

Being a (former) editor on said wiki, I think I can vouch for how often speculation gets dropped into an article as if it were fact there.

I'm not saying it's wrong, but I would REALLY like to know why it's there. The content of the wiki should be held to the same standards as anything else a fan says about the canon, as far as I'm concerned.

[cephiedvariable.livejournal.com]

Also, I think it's also implied that you can have more than one person in a quadrant at a time. That was never specified, but never denied, either.

I'm pretty sure that's not a thing, considering the entire Ashen quadrant exists solely to prevent people from committing black infidelity and we would not have had all this jealousy from Kanaya over Vriska/Tavros or Karkat over Terezi/Dave if that were a thing. Troll romance is heavily tied up in a belief in fate- there is one person and only one person (or two I guess in the case of auspistice) for all of your quadrants, moiralligience included!

[violent-aki.livejournal.com]

Ah, hm. True. Perhaps it varies from quadrant to quadrant? But you're probably right. I think I read a little too much fic and that sometimes confuses me, but thanks. XD

For the record, your explanation of moirallegiance in Cities in Dust is pretty much gospel to me.

[cephiedvariable.livejournal.com]

I HAVE

SO MUCH

STUPID HEADCANON ON MOIRALLIGIENCE (which is just that, headcanon but...) t-that was only the tip of the iceberg ahahaha. I am glad someone appreciates it.

I don't get to write about troll romance often because I am too caught up writing bluh bluh interspecies relationships all the time, which are an entirely different can of worms. (~-_-)~

[violent-aki.livejournal.com]

I definitely appreciate it. So much. Terezi's speech about moirails brought a single manly tear to my eye. Which is part of the reason why I get so defensive about stuff like this, because moirallegiance is my favorite quadrant and, like Terezi said, probably the most important among trolls.

I-I am so stupidly obsessed with all of your works, s-sob. ;_;

OP

[(Anonymous)]

trolls consider it a type of ROMANCE

This. This right here. Are you even fucking reading?

If Kanaya is a lesbian(/girl-fetishist (which is a really GROSS way to word it on Andrew's behalf)), then all of her romantic pursuits (barring auspisticeship, which would of course potentially entail acting on behalf of one male at the risk of being a poor auspistice otherwise) are limited to women. And it is pretty problematic to insinuate otherwise. Even ignoring the romantic factor, it's pretty gross of people to deny important relationships between women and supplant them with male relationships. Karkat and Kanaya were NEVER canonically suggested to be moirails. Yes, Karkat acts like marginally less of a dick to her than anyone else. No, that doesn't necessarily mean shit. Vriska is Kanaya's primary priority. Not a male.

You can either accept the fact that Kanaya's interests and needs will always lie with women, or continue to be a male-privileging and lesbophobic person. Your call.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

"Those which are CONCILIATORY, the pale (moirail) and ashen (auspitice), would be more closely likened to platonic relationships by human standards."

It is PLATONIC. Which, by your logic, seems to mean that lesbian and lesbian-leaning women should not be allowed to be what is basically extremely close friends (and only friends) with men.

When it comes to Matespritship and Kismesissitude, yes Kanaya will in all probability only consider females. But in the platonic areas she is perfectly capable of having males mixed in there.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

BUT IT IS STILL CLASSIFIED AS ROMANCE. FFS.

And frankly, as a queer woman myself, I wouldn't encourage close friendship with males. I and all the queer women (and many of the straight women) I know have only been abused by them.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

And frankly, as a queer woman myself, I wouldn't encourage close friendship with males. I and all the queer women (and many of the straight women) I know have only been abused by them.

I was agreeing with everything you said up until this point. This queer woman with a lot of perfectly nice (straight) guy friends here would like to point out that data is not the plural of anecdote.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Haha wow fuck, you are just the biggest bitch aren't you?

Guess what. I'm a lesbian. My best friend is a male. He helps me pick out the best outfits. He's sweet, kind, gentle with children, and he respects me and my lifestyle.

The bad ones are a case of a minority setting a bad rap for the majority. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences, but you need to get over them, and get over yourself.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

In what way have you been abused by them?

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

What the hell is this? Since when is sexism okay as long as it's against males? We've spent years fighting for gender EQUALITY, not gender SUPERIORITY. Keep your moronic propaganda to yourself.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

oh, I just replied to you somewhere else, but having read this, you're obviously just trolling. yawn.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Romance refers to emotional attachment, not to sexual preference or attraction. Yes it is often associated with sexual attraction for humans, but it isn't always. Also, they're aliens they have a different definition of it than we do.

I'm going to ignore that second half because, while unfortunate and awful, frankly has nothing to do with the characters of this comic..

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

so just because you have had bad experience with males, you want to tell a fictional teenage lesbian vampire alien what to do with her fictional relationships.

okay.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

THIS IS FANDOM. WE MAKE STRAIGHT GUYS GAY. WE MAKE ASEXUAL GUYS GAY. WE MAKE EVERYONE GAY. WE TURN WOMEN INTO MEN, MEN INTO WOMEN, PEOPLE INTO TENTACLE MONSTERS. But the moment someone tries to make a gay character be "straight" everyone flips their collective shit.

Don't act like we have to choose between shipping Kanaya<>Vriska or being a mindless slave of the patriarchy. Don't act like a person can't ship a character with multiple characters, both female and male, in all the possible quadrants. Basically, don't fucking assume you know me just because I ship this or that because HEY GUESS WHAT. YOU DON'T.

I'll be sitting over here, being my lesbian self and shipping Kanaya/Vriska, Kanaya/Rose, Terezi/Nepeta, Aradia/Vriska, AND YES, KANAYA/KARKAT. It's allowed, I fucking promise.

Re: OP

[singie.livejournal.com]

ARE YOU BEING SERIOUS ABOUT THIS, do you really ship Aradia/Vriska or was that a figure of speech or something? They're my bloody OTP and they have a NULL FANBASE. Where can I find you so I can marry you?

[moirailcompass]

Thank you.

Also icon <3

Re: OP

[insanenoodlyguy.livejournal.com]

If she's a lesbian is the key word. Because Andrew keeps emphasizing "only by our standards."

The word is useless in a bisexual culture where gender specifics aren't necessary for reporduction.

Not to mention romantic feelings are based on emotions we do not associate with them.

Yes, she's a lesbian in the sense that her desire for sexual relationships seen thus far seem to be limited to females. But that's only relevant to humans.

Me, I ship Karkat <> Kanaya and just shrug at the label being pointless.

[(Anonymous)]

I always had the same opinion. Especially since Andrew himself said in his formspring that the easiest way to equate Kanaya's orientation in a society with no concept of orientation as being a fetish. And, as we all know, a fetish is an overwhelming, pervasive kink, that makes it something that you practically need to get your rocks off. (See: Equius's submission fetish.) Females are her fetish.

Fetish does not apply to nonsexual situations, therefore I think it's easy to say that the paler quadrants could be filled with men. Remember guys, she was the canon example of an auspitice between both Vriska and TAVROS, who is a MAN.



Also, I'm really surprised Sollux<>Feferi is not on that list. You'd think the in-your-face parallel between them on the horn pile and Equius and Nepeta in the robot pile would be enough to at least have that thought cross people's noggins.

[(Anonymous)]

Psht, hell naw. We human readers, with our much more one-dimensional romances, would naturally assume that Eridan flew into a jealous rage because he read the budding Sollux-Feferi relationship as flushed. It couldn't POSSIBLY be that his jealous rage was induced by this filthy land-dweller, so far below him on the hemospectrum, usurping the moirallegiance he once had.

(Not to mention that Feferi never says anything more specific about her relationship with Sollux than "our quadrant"; it's obviously redrom of some sort, but it's not confirmed which.)

[insanenoodlyguy.livejournal.com]

Ummm... actually, fetishes by definition totally apply to nonsexual situations.

Proof. In fun comic form!

http://www.darcomic.org/comics/2009-12-15fetish.jpg

(note, this particular comic is totally sfw. The comic itself isn't always)