[ SECRET POST #2007 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2007 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 111 secrets from Secret Submission Post #287.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - text secret ], [ 1 - empty image ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Isn't that like a person who believes in the Bible and in the Christian God not calling themselves "a christian" because they don't like the Westboro Baptist Church?

Or a straight person saying they're not "straight" because they don't like homophobes? Or a gay person saying they're not "gay" because they aren't stereotypical?

Words have meanings.

[(Anonymous)]

To add to this, I would add that there's no one correct "way" to be a feminist, just like there's no "one true way" to be gay or straight or christian or what have you. That doesn't mean the word only applies to a certain subset of people.

[stainless]

Not really. It's more like a religious person blinking and going "I believe in God. What are you doing calling me a Christian and saying I share all of your beliefs?"

And the "not calling yourself gay" rather makes my point for me. When trying to reach as many people as possible (say, to give health information to any who might need it) people tend to use the term "men who have sex with men." Precisely because some people have what you or I might call "gay sex", but for whatever reason don't identify with the label.

So thanks for making my point for me, anon. Totally agree that words have meanings -- and totally tired of people making "feminist" mean everything!

[(Anonymous)]

DA

No. "Believing in God" is not what defines a "Christian" so you're getting the definitions wrong to begin with. You didn't even specify a Christian God or Christian ideals. "God" can apply to so many religions.

MSM always struck me as homophobic. Attracted to men but they don't want to be associated with ~the gays~ so they'll just be men who happen to have sex with men all the time! Your examples are pretty shitty ones and don't really proev your point.

[stainless]

I think you missed my point. My point is that "feminist" is actually specific -- it refers to being part of a movement, not just to the idea "that women are people," as one slogan puts it. That movement has goals and ideals. It's broad, yes, just like "Christian" is broad; a Catholic and a Protestant might have very different beliefs about specific things, and so might two feminists.

When I say that I don't label myself a feminist, I mean that I am not a part of that movement (was, actually, for years, and then left it.) I do consider myself part of other movements, such as the disability rights movement. And yes, I believe those movements overlap in some ways, and don't have a problem with that. But when I assert that I'm part of one and not part of the other, I'm making a point about where I choose to put my energy (and why I do -- there are a lot of feminists who have the very rigid and deeply upsetting attitude people here mock as "SJW." I don't think all feminists are like this, but it was widespread in the circles I was in and I haven't seen evidence that the problem has lessened much at all. Intolerance and rigid ideology that resulted in some very bizarre exclusions seems to have dogged feminist community since at least the '70s.

So when someone says "You are a feminist! I insist!" I wonder why they want to force me into "sisterhood" with them, and why they of all people miss the meaning of the word "No."

[fenm]

My point is that "feminist" is actually specific -- it refers to being part of a movement, not just to the idea "that women are people," as one slogan puts it.

No, you've got it backwards. You don't have to be part of a "movement" to be a feminist.

[stainless]

On what authority do you tell me I have it backwards?

[(Anonymous)]

I disagree. I freely call myself a feminist and it has nothing to do with being involved with "part of a movement", and everything to do with believing women should have the equal rights of men and genders should be treated equally etc etc etc.

But then I'm not sure how you'd qualify being part of the movement. I mean, I live my life by my own values and those values do include feminism.

If you don't want to be a feminist, that's fine. I tend to think people who aren't feminists or humanists are just refusing because of backlash from popular depictions of extremists, or that they dont' really understand what feminism is about.

[stainless]

To me, being part of a movement is doing work to further its goals. My job involves activism for disability rights, so I'm in the happy situation of my activism and my professional life merging together. It's nice when a day at work can be going to the protest! :-)

But simply to say "I live my life according to these values" and never to have marched, or stood in front of the County board, or met with state legislators, or headed to the Hill -- well, at one time I might have said someone can do nothing but have the values and I'd call them a member of the movement. But after spending years devoting so much time and effort to the movement of my choice, I'm a bit disillusioned with people whose hearts are in the right place but who don't do the work.

Of course there are a lot of ways to do the work and not all of them are direct action. I'd call the people who run several blogs that actually have large followings part of the movement. It's not about specific things.

But I'm disillusioned with people who occasionally blog about things now and then, or who read major blogs and nod in agreement, or who participate in heated comment threads and little else. I don't question the person's values, but I do question whether the person is someone who really works for change or just a good person with a good heart.

[(Anonymous)]

If a person doesn't like homophobes, they still might not be gay/LGBT/insert-other-label right activists. That's what the term feminist reminds me of, by the way. There are many reasons why some people may choose to call themselves feminists, but I usually find that it's because they're actively working on creating equal rights for women.

I'm female and I believe in equal rights, but I don't call myself a feminist. I'm thinking equalist might be a good term except it was coined by villains first.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

They never said anything about activists. They just said that disliking homophobes doesn't make that person any less "straight" by definition.

I believe in equal rights

Other people will call you feminist because that is what feminist means. Your gender doesn't matter.

[(Anonymous)]

I believe in equal rights, that doesn't have anything to do with females. Anyone on this planet, be it male, female, some other gender, or whatever this person is, should have the same right. If this makes me a feminist, there's something wrong with this world.

[(Anonymous)]

Feminist is just the term for it, like it or not.

[(Anonymous)]

Feminist is the term for believing everyone in the world is equal? Really? I'm sure the LGBT right activists would like to be called feminists.

[kitty_wake]

Or something wrong with your view of the word "feminist". Personally I'll take option B.

[stainless]

I think these people would say it signs you up for more than one social justice movement.

But that's always struck me as pretty bizarre. Basically it means anyone sitting around going "Boy, a more equitable world would be awesome!" is a member of a whole slew of movements.

I'd much rather people reserve the term for those people who actually do shit. But this would probably offend people who think making a couple comments on a messageboard/community makes them a change maker.

Personally I think it's a very rare and special person who can really devote herself to more than one movement and do the work. Because heaven knows we have a long, long way to go.

[fenm]

If this makes me a feminist, there's something wrong with this world.

What's wrong with this world is that it's turned "feminist" into such a bad word that even people who are feminist (like you) don't want to say they are.

[(Anonymous)]

Because it's saying that when I say "humans" are equal, I'm automatically meaning males and females are equal, when that's clearly not what I said. I could be putting people into a lot of different categories. If this had been a secret about racism, I could be talking about races, but here people are forcing me to take a label I clearly did not state. In most cases, I choose not to use labels at all because I don't believe in putting people into categories.

[(Anonymous)]

Most times when someone calls themselves a Feminist I want to run in the other direction.

It's not that I don't share the goal of equality for everyone but to be honest many outspoken Feminist I read about in papers/watched on talkshows etc. and the ones on the Internet are kinda scary people who end up so focused on women issues that they forget that other people (even men) have problems generated by society as well.

I'm not against feminism but I don't want to be associated with it because it's new advocates seem to be a bunch of crazy people (at least where I live).

[(Anonymous)]

Given how strong an aversion you have to the word feminist, I think it's safe to say you're not one.

If anything, you sound antifeminist.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, on the one hand I agree with you. Being a feminist entails way more than just 'believing women are people' or even 'believing everyone [or even, men and women] should be equal'. It means you have to be involved in activism for women in some way, even if it's as small and seemingly insignificant as just showing people when they're doing or saying something sexist and letting them know what's wrong.

On the other... you seem a little too invested in not caring about the rights of women in particular.

[(Anonymous)]

Anyone on this planet, be it male, female, some other gender, or whatever this person is, should have the same right.

Except, when it comes to men vs. women, men are not really in danger of having fewer rights. Excluding trans men, who face their own set of persecutions, men have more rights than women everywhere in the world. So if you're concerned with being a "humanist," or whatever dumb shit people are calling it these days, then you're concerned with feminism. Sorry, but in general society, "oppressed men" is not a thing.

[(Anonymous)]

Right!

...unless the men in question are non-straight, non-white, disabled, poor, and so forth. You remembered the transmen, but all of the rest are not female exclusive areas and that anon was not only talking about gender.

[fuchsiascreams]

Like what? What rights do men have that women don't? I do not even know how to begin Googling this.

[(Anonymous)]

Feminism is fighting for the equality of all people by fighting for women to have all the rights that men have had handed to them since the dawn of time.

That's why it's called feminism.

Because men don't need to have their rights fought for, they already have them.

hth