[ SECRET POST #2007 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2007 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 111 secrets from Secret Submission Post #287.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - text secret ], [ 1 - empty image ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[stainless]

Eh. I don't like sexism, but I don't like a lot of self-styled feminists either.

Whenever people wonder why other women don't call themselves feminists (especially if they then do the whole false dilemma "you're a feminist or a misogynist and there is no middle ground" a la Ani DiFranco), I wonder if they say the same things about other labels, too.

[(Anonymous)]

Isn't that like a person who believes in the Bible and in the Christian God not calling themselves "a christian" because they don't like the Westboro Baptist Church?

Or a straight person saying they're not "straight" because they don't like homophobes? Or a gay person saying they're not "gay" because they aren't stereotypical?

Words have meanings.

[(Anonymous)]

To add to this, I would add that there's no one correct "way" to be a feminist, just like there's no "one true way" to be gay or straight or christian or what have you. That doesn't mean the word only applies to a certain subset of people.

[stainless]

Not really. It's more like a religious person blinking and going "I believe in God. What are you doing calling me a Christian and saying I share all of your beliefs?"

And the "not calling yourself gay" rather makes my point for me. When trying to reach as many people as possible (say, to give health information to any who might need it) people tend to use the term "men who have sex with men." Precisely because some people have what you or I might call "gay sex", but for whatever reason don't identify with the label.

So thanks for making my point for me, anon. Totally agree that words have meanings -- and totally tired of people making "feminist" mean everything!

[(Anonymous)]

DA

No. "Believing in God" is not what defines a "Christian" so you're getting the definitions wrong to begin with. You didn't even specify a Christian God or Christian ideals. "God" can apply to so many religions.

MSM always struck me as homophobic. Attracted to men but they don't want to be associated with ~the gays~ so they'll just be men who happen to have sex with men all the time! Your examples are pretty shitty ones and don't really proev your point.

[stainless]

I think you missed my point. My point is that "feminist" is actually specific -- it refers to being part of a movement, not just to the idea "that women are people," as one slogan puts it. That movement has goals and ideals. It's broad, yes, just like "Christian" is broad; a Catholic and a Protestant might have very different beliefs about specific things, and so might two feminists.

When I say that I don't label myself a feminist, I mean that I am not a part of that movement (was, actually, for years, and then left it.) I do consider myself part of other movements, such as the disability rights movement. And yes, I believe those movements overlap in some ways, and don't have a problem with that. But when I assert that I'm part of one and not part of the other, I'm making a point about where I choose to put my energy (and why I do -- there are a lot of feminists who have the very rigid and deeply upsetting attitude people here mock as "SJW." I don't think all feminists are like this, but it was widespread in the circles I was in and I haven't seen evidence that the problem has lessened much at all. Intolerance and rigid ideology that resulted in some very bizarre exclusions seems to have dogged feminist community since at least the '70s.

So when someone says "You are a feminist! I insist!" I wonder why they want to force me into "sisterhood" with them, and why they of all people miss the meaning of the word "No."

[fenm]

My point is that "feminist" is actually specific -- it refers to being part of a movement, not just to the idea "that women are people," as one slogan puts it.

No, you've got it backwards. You don't have to be part of a "movement" to be a feminist.

[(Anonymous)]

I disagree. I freely call myself a feminist and it has nothing to do with being involved with "part of a movement", and everything to do with believing women should have the equal rights of men and genders should be treated equally etc etc etc.

But then I'm not sure how you'd qualify being part of the movement. I mean, I live my life by my own values and those values do include feminism.

If you don't want to be a feminist, that's fine. I tend to think people who aren't feminists or humanists are just refusing because of backlash from popular depictions of extremists, or that they dont' really understand what feminism is about.

[(Anonymous)]

If a person doesn't like homophobes, they still might not be gay/LGBT/insert-other-label right activists. That's what the term feminist reminds me of, by the way. There are many reasons why some people may choose to call themselves feminists, but I usually find that it's because they're actively working on creating equal rights for women.

I'm female and I believe in equal rights, but I don't call myself a feminist. I'm thinking equalist might be a good term except it was coined by villains first.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

They never said anything about activists. They just said that disliking homophobes doesn't make that person any less "straight" by definition.

I believe in equal rights

Other people will call you feminist because that is what feminist means. Your gender doesn't matter.

[(Anonymous)]

I believe in equal rights, that doesn't have anything to do with females. Anyone on this planet, be it male, female, some other gender, or whatever this person is, should have the same right. If this makes me a feminist, there's something wrong with this world.

[(Anonymous)]

Feminist is just the term for it, like it or not.

[kitty_wake]

Or something wrong with your view of the word "feminist". Personally I'll take option B.

[stainless]

I think these people would say it signs you up for more than one social justice movement.

But that's always struck me as pretty bizarre. Basically it means anyone sitting around going "Boy, a more equitable world would be awesome!" is a member of a whole slew of movements.

I'd much rather people reserve the term for those people who actually do shit. But this would probably offend people who think making a couple comments on a messageboard/community makes them a change maker.

Personally I think it's a very rare and special person who can really devote herself to more than one movement and do the work. Because heaven knows we have a long, long way to go.

[fenm]

If this makes me a feminist, there's something wrong with this world.

What's wrong with this world is that it's turned "feminist" into such a bad word that even people who are feminist (like you) don't want to say they are.

[(Anonymous)]

Given how strong an aversion you have to the word feminist, I think it's safe to say you're not one.

If anything, you sound antifeminist.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, on the one hand I agree with you. Being a feminist entails way more than just 'believing women are people' or even 'believing everyone [or even, men and women] should be equal'. It means you have to be involved in activism for women in some way, even if it's as small and seemingly insignificant as just showing people when they're doing or saying something sexist and letting them know what's wrong.

On the other... you seem a little too invested in not caring about the rights of women in particular.

[(Anonymous)]

Anyone on this planet, be it male, female, some other gender, or whatever this person is, should have the same right.

Except, when it comes to men vs. women, men are not really in danger of having fewer rights. Excluding trans men, who face their own set of persecutions, men have more rights than women everywhere in the world. So if you're concerned with being a "humanist," or whatever dumb shit people are calling it these days, then you're concerned with feminism. Sorry, but in general society, "oppressed men" is not a thing.

[b33fdove]

I get that there are a lot of racial and trans* reasons a person wouldn't want to associate with feminism, but a throwaway line about not being a feminist in an otherwise very feminist secret doesn't seem like the place where that would be brought up?

Like..just leave that line out..idgi

[(Anonymous)]

I'd just prefer not to choose a label. I'd admit I don't like that it's connected to a gender and claiming it's for equality. All the names cropping up because of that just seem like they're headed towards the ridiculous subsets like we get when people try to label themselves in the LGBT community. More and more labels for ever little nuance of your being.

It'd be cool if being human was enough.

(Though personally if I had to choose any "movement" at the moment I'd join the MRAs.)

[stainless]

MRAs? I have no hesitation about calling those guys a pile of nucking futs.

[(Anonymous)]

Because, like feminism, the loudest ones are the ones people hear the most.

Wanting the same rights that have been given to women doesn't make someone "nucking futs."

Wanting to forgo relationships with women forever because women are 'goldigging whores' does.

It's literally the same thing in feminism I just feel that society is more accepting of feminism and condemning of men asking for anything. That's why we have anti-rape commercials that ONLY target men as the perp and tell men they should be protecting women, charities for women only(like homelessness and single parenting), focus on women's health, ridiculous child custody and child support laws.

I don't think that we should stop caring about women but caring for men as human beings isn't going to hurt.

[stainless]

The whole alpha-beta thing just kills it for me, sorry.

[(Anonymous)]

"wanting the same rights that women have been given"?

LOLWHAT? Yes, because we have all those awesome extra rights that men don't have and they are totally oppressed and left behind. What were they again?


Hahahahahaha NO.

MRAs are, to a man, whiny douches who can't bear the idea of real equality, or of giving up any of their privileges to those damn wimmin. And they'll whine a bit more when you call them on it, but scratch them and they show their true colours.

And many of them ARE "fucking nuts" and bloody scary to boot. Have you READ their stuff? Have you SEEN them cluster onto prefectly mainstream and reasonable feminist blogs and sites and tell posters and commenters they need a good rape to sort them out?

[(Anonymous)]

This is exactly how I feel. My entire problem with the term "feminism" is that it's connected to a gender. I also don't feel the need to label myself. I believe in equal rights for everyone - gender, race, sexual orientation, nationality, social class, etc - and I just don't believe the term "feminism" sums that up at all. Unpopular opinion time, but I also believe the need to be feminist in our society has, in probably well-meaning attempts to not be sexist, created some truly unfortunate double-standards (in a movie, it's terrible when a man hits a woman, but when a woman hits a man it's meant to be funny... male-on-female rapists/molesters get convicted more often and serve more time than female-on-male rapists/molesters... I could go on and on here). So, while I know that in general women need more help getting equal rights, it just doesn't sit right with me to call myself a "feminist" because I feel that it goes against my belief system. I know some people disagree with me, that's cool, but I really don't care. I also don't care that feminist is "the term" for equality. It doesn't have to be, and I certainly don't agree with it. I like to put all human beings on the same level, including in the word used to describe that idea.