[ SECRET POST #2046 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2046 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 021 secrets from Secret Submission Post #292.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - spam secret ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

If they were forced like the girls are? Yes.

Besides, the implication that attraction to boys is icky, while everyone has a boner to girls, is there in the books.

[(Anonymous)]

If they're forced that's totally wrong.

But I thought some of the relationships were consensual? (ie. Dany/Drogo)

[(Anonymous)]

Pedophilia is not "consensual"...

[(Anonymous)]

In a world where the age of consent/marriage is when they first get their periods? How much can we really apply there, especially with how heavily this series is based off of real history? Yes, it's illegal and definitely wrong, but it was normal for the time.

[(Anonymous)]

I love the "historical accuracy" argument. Because crotch shades who murder people, ice zombies, lovecraftian monsters, warging, unicorns, talking dragons, magic etc are so historical.

It's not historically accurate, it's RPG-accurate.

[rtydmartel]

What bothers me about the "historical accuracy" argument is that it kind of falls apart as an excuse for sexual abuse, misogyny, etc. when you stop and think that it was the author who choose to write something in that time of history to begin with, and no one forced him to be "accurate to history".

Really, who would really hold it against him if he didn't include all the horrors of those times on Earth on a fictional, fantasy universe?

Who could tell him: "fuck you man, I want to see some underage girls raped, why didn't you include that?!" and not look like an asshole in the process?

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you so much.

[(Anonymous)]

I've seen people say that the nomadic, wilderness-dwelling and other tribe portrayals are not racist just ~historically accurate~.

No no no and no.

[darkmanifest]

Fucking exactly.

[insanenoodlyguy]

I WOULD.

IT WOULDN'T BE DARK AND DEEP ENOUGH! STOP TRYING TO RUIN MY SM-ERR, TIME PIECE APPROPRIATE LITERATURE.

But really, at the same time, why shouldn't he write it the way he wants? Historical accuracy isn't the best word, but i would say that it's relatively plausible for such a world to have such shitty things.

[rtydmartel]

IT'S OKAY LET'S JUST THROW IN SOME MORE DEATH AND VIOLENCE AND IT WILL ALL BALANCE OUT.

More seriously speaking, I was struggling to put this into coherent sentences, so I'll copy-paste part of the comment that an anon posted below:

"The problem is that GRRM sexualizes his young, female characters in an exploitative and male-gazey way. See the Amazon link that's going around for a quick, condensed look at how often he writes about Dany and Sansa's budding, sweating, swollen, small breasts. He doesn't write about his male characters that way. He doesn't talk about Robb walking around with his growing, budding cock swinging gently between his young thighs. He only sexualizes the male characters in sexual situations. The point is that GRRM is making female sexuality all about grown men perving on them-- budding female sexuality that belongs to and is on display for men, not something that is part of the characters."

/end copy-pasting

If it was an equal-opportunity kind of thing, not from the point of view of the story and setting, mind, but from the point of view of the focus of the narrative, and so, of the author, I would feel, well, uncomfortable, because it would be dark subject matter I'm reading about, but not annoyed or angry about the creepy sexist and ephebophilic vibes coming from the author.

Like, if the setting is sexist and and dreadful and has rape and other such terrible things, okay, I could accept it as being a part of that world, but having the author sound like he's getting off on it is what takes me out of the story and reminds me that I'm reading the words of a man who totally imagined all these scenes and then wrote them down with loving attention to the bodies of the women and young girls in a way that is very skeevy.

In the interest of disclosure, I have only read passages of the books, not the books themselves. Every time I want to give them a chance (because author creepiness aside, they sound like something I might enjoy reading), I find out something even worse about them and the author himself that puts me off.

[(Anonymous)]

Hey man, mountain vikings and inflammable dragon women totally existed!

[(Anonymous)]

What?! Teenagers having sex is 'wrong' and immoral?

If they're capable of getting horny, it's not really 'wrong'. That's nature.

[(Anonymous)]

...No one said that teenagers having sex is wrong and immoral. Reading comprehension, get some.

[(Anonymous)]

Um, maybe I am incorrect but the thread went like this:

-Dany (a teenage girl) had consensual sex with an older man
-someone responds with 'pedophilia is wrong' implying that a teenage girl having consensual sex with an older man is pedophilia, and thus wrong

I do agree that pedophilia is wrong, but I do not agree that teenagers having sex (with people their age or older) is wrong.

[darkmanifest]

She was twelve/thirteen and he was late twenties/early thirties. She was sold to him in an arranged marriage by her brother. She could not refuse to sleep with him, even when she was in pain. She eventually learned to find sources of pleasure in her horrific situation because she had no other choice and then Stockholm Syndrome kicked in.

I am all-for teenagers having happy-go-lucky sex with each other and even older people, within reason, but Dany and Drogo are not a good example of that.

[(Anonymous)]

Teenagers enjoying and desiring sex is not pedophilia.

A teenage boy can have sex is a regarded as a 'man', but teenager girl is regarded as a child and can't make decisions for herself. Do you not realize how harmful that is to women?

[(Anonymous)]

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

ADULTS FUCKING TWELVE YEAR OLDS IS PEDOPHILIA

IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THEY ARE GIRLS OR BOYS

JFC

[(Anonymous)]

I thought pedophilia is attraction to prepubescents? So I guess at 12, it technically varies depending on the individual. That being said, I think most 12 year old fall probably fall under the prepubescent category. I personally wasn't sexually active at 12, but I know people who were and I'm not going to demean them by saying 'you were just confused', 'you didn't know what's good for you'.

Also, I thought that Dany girl was like 13/14 when she has sex?

[(Anonymous)]

da

but one thing is being sexually active with other adolescents within your age range, and another thing to be put into a situation with an adult where you're pushed to say yes

[(Anonymous)]

but I know people who were and I'm not going to demean them by saying 'you were just confused', 'you didn't know what's good for you'.

Statuary rape. It is a thing.

Fuck, you sound like a NAMBLA apologist.

[rapunzelita]

...Do you really need it to be pedophilia in order to argue that it's morally wrong? As far as I'm concerned "not consensual" is pretty much enough. No need to go OMG PEDOPHILES CAPSLOCKS MY ARGUMENT IS INDESTRUCTIBLE BECAUSE PEDOPHILIAAAAAA.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know why you're turning this into an "omg girls can be as sexual as boys!" issue when it's not.

The problem is that GRRM sexualizes his young, female characters in an exploitative and male-gazey way. See the Amazon link that's going around for a quick, condensed look at how often he writes about Dany and Sansa's budding, sweating, swollen, small breasts. He doesn't write about his male characters that way. He doesn't talk about Robb walking around with his growing, budding cock swinging gently between his young thighs. He only sexualizes the male characters in sexual situations. The point is that GRRM is making female sexuality all about grown men perving on them-- budding female sexuality that belongs to and is on display for men, not something that is part of the characters.

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't know much about this series until just recently (with people posting the quotes and interviews and what-not). What I had heard had been from other people, and let's just say they described on-goings in the story in a very different light.
I thought people were upset because a teenage girl was being sexually active, and that bothered me. But now that I've read that Amazon link, I see that this 'GRRM' isn't so much representing teen sexuality as he is using it for titillation.

Thanks for explaining it all to me, especially the difference between the male and females characters; I hate those types of double standard.

[(Anonymous)]

This.