[ SECRET POST #2137 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2137 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 015 secrets from Secret Submission Post #305.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

10. http://i.imgur.com/jItd6.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

It's sad that the Palestine issue is branded an anti-Jewish issue instead of a legitimate land struggle. I have a hard time respecting people who say Palestinians are all anti-Jewish and have no right to their own land.

[(Anonymous)]

That might have something to with the fact that a lot of so-called pro-Palestine liberals are using anti-Zionism as an excuse to justify their anti-Semitism.

Obviously not ALL of them. But a very vocal minority.

[(Anonymous)]

Knowing that the bulk of LJ fandoms are based in the U.S. -- and assuming that you interact with a lot of American fans -- anti-Palestinian sentiments are unfortunately inevitable. Folks here in the U.S. tend to conflate opposition to Israel's expansion and support of Palestinian land rights with anti-Semitism (as you surely know), and our national perception of Israel is overall wrapped up with feelings of guilt and horror over the Holocaust. As such, a lot of young, pro-Israeli Americans don't look at the Israel-Palestine conflicts with clear eyes.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sure this will end well.

[mekkio]

*groan* This is going to turn into one of those severely anti-Semitic threads where everyone thinks it's okay to throw bigotry around because, "In my country we don't have any Jews. So, it doesn't count" i.e; one of those "I live in a glass bubble country so my bigotry isn't real bigotry."

*sigh*

I'll get the popcorn machine humming...

[(Anonymous)]

This issue is so goddamn messy that I think anyone who rabidly takes 100% one side or the other is a complete idiot, tbqh.

[unicornherds]

I had no idea there was an anti-Palestine movement on LJ. That seems so bizarre and random to me.

[(Anonymous)]

So what's the fandom?

[(Anonymous)]

All I got out of this is BANKSY!

[(Anonymous)]

There is plenty of anti-Semitism in countries where there are few or no Jews.

Eh. Troll.

[(Anonymous)]

It's great how there's no anti-semitism in nations with no Jews, isn't it.

OH WAIT.

Also, "Ignorant Opinions About International Politics" isn't a fandom (although if it were, we could read Economist/Mother Jones hatesex, which would be a lot of fun.)

[sabotabby]

Brace yourself for wank.

This said, OP, I'm Jewish and pro-Palestinian. While there are certainly people who express anti-Zionist opinions who are also anti-Semitic (and those people are dickheads), the Israel-Palestinian conflict is about basic human rights and dignity. And I could go on at great length but these discussions really do tend to be more productive outside of fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

Tumblr seems pretty full of pro-Palestinian sentiment, at least from what I've seen.

[ex_paola492]

Oh boy...

I'm from a palestinian family (my dad's from Jerusalem, from the catholic minority) and I'm also very pro two-state solution. Yes, it is a complicated issue, and it makes me sad when I read a lot of discussions on lj boiling down to anti-semitism and anti-muslims sentiments, when there's much more going on. Like sabotabby pointed out, it's about basic human rights and dignity, not about name calling and whatnot.

[cloud_riven]

[(Anonymous)]

It's because there's really no clear goal or decision or plan. With things like, say, gay marriage, it's pretty clear: it's wrong to deny the right to marry to gay couples just because they're gay; they should be allowed to marry. Petitions, awareness, voting, there you go.
Whereas with Palestine, the situation is wrong but there's no clear answer for what needs to happen. Support a two-state solution? Stop the land-grabbing? Get rid of Israel? Wars? Protests? Nobody knows for sure and everyone is very impassioned about it. And nobody wants to be accused of anti-Semitism, even though that's not what the issue should be about at all.

[(Anonymous)]

Wait, there's a theory that people from countries without a Jewish population can't be anti-Semitic?

That's like saying people from towns without any black people can't be racist. It doesn't work that way. Familiarity is the thing that helps people get past prejudices, not complete lack of experience.

I am not touching the actual question of Israel/Palestine with a 10-foot pole, btw. Not worth it.

[(Anonymous)]

As a gay person, the idea of supporting Palestine over Israel makes me really uncomfortable.

[(Anonymous)]

I am so glad someone spoke up about this. I'm stubborn enough that the threat of being called anti-semitic doesn't keep me from looking at what Zionism has brought about in Palestine and the middle east, and being appalled at the systematic genocide. I hope that with this SJW kerfuffle, fandom at large will wise up to the fact that not everyone who yells about privilege and oppression is airing a legitimate greivance. There is a lot of injustice, and racism/sexism/etc. are real, awful things, but there's no shortcut to running accusations past your own crap detectors. A moral, decent human being can't trust other people to do their thinking for them. If you were ever revolted at the defense "I was just following orders," keep in mind that the alternative that we liberals have comitted ourselves to is questioning. Challenging. Acting in ways that we can own up to, without having to blame anyone. When that means we disagree with the world at large, it's difficult. Disagreeing with people we normally see eye-to-eye with is even harder. But that's what an ally does. That's what it means to be commited to fighting injustice. Anyone can support the causes that other people risked and died for, the ones society has embraced in name, if often not in fact. Looking at the problems that society won't even admit are problems, though, the ones that get you called unsavory names because there is an official position, dammit ... that's indispensable and takes real courage. (Which isn't a license to stupidly go out and pick fights/be contrary. But there are still problems that call for the willingness to stand alone.)

I am glad to see that so far, despite the comments moaning about "troll secret" and worrying that the responses are going to be hateful, reacionary, and racist, they haven't been. I hope you feel less alone, OP.

[(Anonymous)]

I believe there should be a Palestine aka two-state solution. Land is never worth the lives of human beings. Deal with the fact things have changed and both sides need to stop fucking killing one another if their religion means something to them. NONE of the Abrahamic religions promote killing like this.

The end.

[(Anonymous)]

I call troll. You're just trying to stir up anti-Israel shit, this is barely relevant to fandom.
"Fandom is so liberal, HOT POLITICAL ISSUE"

yeah. right.

[(Anonymous)]

I spent six months in Israel doing various volunteer work. I lived with Israelis and Palestinians. I visited the West Bank and talked to everyone I could about the conflict. And everybody who says there is no black and white is absolutely right. Israel has done horrible things and Palestine has horrible things. Everyone will tell you a different story. This issue cannot be stripped down to simple terms. The two-state solution is the only real option. It will be a long time before any progress it made I think.

got me to thinking of this vid

[(Anonymous)]

the creator has been up front about simplifications/inaccuracies/things she felt could be clearer, but the main point remains:

http://vimeo.com/50531435

[childings.livejournal.com]

Hahaha are you kidding fandom is hugely pro-Palestine, sometimes veering on antisemitism

And the Palestinian/Israeli conflict aside -- antisemitism seems to be totally acceptable in fandom, I find