[ SECRET POST #2427 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2427 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 068 secrets from Secret Submission Post #347.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

06. http://i42.tinypic.com/2cmokrl.png

[nan]

I don't watch Supernatural but that secret+pileup made me irrationally dislike Dean a little bit, hahaha. I have a feeling if I watched the show, Sam would be my favorite.

[(Anonymous)]

Not the OP

I think it's cool if Sam wound up your favorite. He's an awesome character. Please don't take him as your favorite because of these two secrets though. Both OPs have phenomenally bad takes on canon. All this stuff that they're talking about making Sam happy was great television (well, mostly - the stuff with Amelia was poorly put together even though I liked her and Sam as a couple) but most of it tied back to things that horrified Sam and made him miserable. Just as an example, RoboSam was hot as fuck and I'd have watched ten seasons of him going out making people uncomfortable, but RoboSam =/= Sam and Sam himself as a character was horrified by what RoboSam had done and how he had behaved.

Can you please explain though why you'd dislike Dean because of these two comments? I'm always lost when people say they dislike a canon character because of his/her fans just in general but from what I remember of the other thread it wasn't even Dean!girls in particular talking about him. I only remember one anon who specifically said they liked Dean best. It seems kinda unfair to me to dislike a character based on a couple of really off base secrets, I guess. (If you dislike him because of the character himself, that's again totally cool. I get it, he's not for everyone and that's fine. I just don't get it if you decide not to like him because of a handful of people on FS?)

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, please don't go into Supernatural disliking a character because of reasons like that. That secret and the ''pileup'' were both ridiculous. I'm not sure why it has to be one or the other with this fandom. Why does it have to be Sam vs. Dean? Is it impossible to like both?

[(Anonymous)]

Have to admit, I had the exact same reaction. I don't watch Supernatural much and have no investment in the characters when I do watch, but the Sam!bashing pile-on in response to a harmless Sam!loving secret left me feeling irrationally defensive and anti-Dean -- since most of it had blatant pro-Dean bias -- and I've never seen anything to suggest either guy isn't deserving of happiness, or that either of them can be more of a dick than the other, so I don't get the hostility over someone wanting Sam happy..

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah. :( Tbh, the dogpiling is what made me uncomfortable being in the SPN fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

I prefer Dean but the only reason I ever dislike Sam is because on occasion his storylines are boring and he doesn't have the acting chops to pull all of them off.

But I find the Dean vs Sam stuff a bit ridiculous because they've both been stupid and horrible. And maybe I'm in the minority here but I don't want the show to end fucking over either of them, my ultimate happy ending is having the two of them together because that's what the show is about.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, can someone please link me to this apparent overreaction by nasty, spiteful Dean!girls? I must have missed it.

[darkmanifest]

I believe it's supposed to be this? http://fandomsecrets.dreamwidth.org/860067.html?thread=677774499#cmt677774499

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry OP, I automatically discount the opinion of anyone who smears people who like a different character or calls them "stans", especially in SPN fandom. It's incredibly petty behavior for one thing and for another, the only SPN fan who I know who uses "stan" as an insult is that one Sam!girl from the anon meme who posts a lot of Sam vs. Dean wank (except for when they start bashing Misha or Cas fans). Oh, and the twits from spn_gossip but the less said about them the better.

Frankly, OP? You're a perfect example of the whiny fans who drove me out of SPN fandom to begin with. Just FYI, it's perfectly fine to be a fan of one character. It doesn't mean you need to insult another or hate on them to get your point across.

FFS, if you're talking about Ruby as a shining highlight of Sam's life when he was all "independent" or whatever then dude, I hate to say it, but you're actually, truefax, watching the show wrong. S4 was a miserable time in Sam's life. He bordered on suicidal for most of it until Ruby tricked him. Azazel didn't make Sam do jack shit, btw. Sam did it all on his own but it was after he was manipulated by Heaven and Hell alike.

I love Sam's S4 storyline. I love RoboSam, too. I'm totally cool with Sam having other people besides Dean in his life (I actually prefer it when both of them have other people and not just each other - extreme codependency squicks me especially when the narrative almost fetishizes it like what happens in SPN) but liking a story and finding it interesting doesn't mean I think it was at all healthy or a happy time for the characters involved. Dean in Hell is another storyline I enjoy - it sure as anything wasn't healthy for him!

Finally, just a quick note about Dean giving Sam shit about S4? Yeah, he did give Sam shit about it because Sam spent most of a year lying to him and openly considering himself the smarter, better hunter. Dean had every freaking right to be pissed off! Just like Sam had every freaking right to be pissed off at Dean in S3 for making his deal and then refusing to take it seriously. They both fuck up with each other and they both have a right to be angry about it. And don't give me this bullshit about how Sam is noble and forgiving and doesn't give Dean exactly as much grief as Dean gives Sam - Sam's anger tends to be more open while Dean goes for quietly held grudges but Sam's anger causes him to explode and leave when he knows that Dean's got abandonment issues ten miles high.

Seriously, OP, I wish you would just get over the fact that Sam isn't everyone's favorite. And this is said by someone who LOVES Sam. I just don't think everyone has to do fandom exactly the way that I do it and I don't think my favorite is somehow better than any other character on the show. Knock it off; your wanking was boring in 2008.

[(Anonymous)]

I love this comment. And you. You win the internet.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, thank you. Neither of them are saints. Neither of them are the scum of the earth. They're not supposed to be, they are better the way they are, it's okay to like characters that aren't paragons of human perfection!

[sootyowl]

I like both brothers. They complete each other in a really messed up way.

I liked Sam's storyline with demon blood and Ruby. I shipped S/R and was sad when Ruby turned out to be evil the whole time. Also demon blood Sam was hot.

Most of the time when I watch spn, I just want to give both boys a hug or smack them across the heads for being joint morons.

[(Anonymous)]

So, basically, you were the one who wrote that other secret?

The only reason I didn't like the other secret was because it was worded...odd? That's not the right word for it, but it just sounded very juvenile. It sounded like a troll secret.

[(Anonymous)]

da

Count me as another who thinks this OP and the OP of the other thread are one and the same. (Shouldn't this count as "take it to the comments" anyway?)

I didn't like the other secret because it got me irritated on Sam's behalf. Sam deserves better! But yeah worded oddly and very much sounded like a troll secret. Not as much as this one sounds like a troll secret, but...

[transcriptanon]

[Picture is blue text on a blank black background.]

I saw that secret about Sam Winchester and the Original Poster's love for his character, and it annoyed me to no end to see everyone bandwagon bagging on the Original poster for their secret. Not only that, but folks calling them a troll to boot.

And of course, it goes right into the Dean stans making stuff about how Dean needs to be happy, because fuck Sam, right? Because Dean's really the star of a show that's about two brothers, right?

I'm a Sam fan, too, and I was thrilled to see that secret, because I thought I was the only one that loved RoboSam, the demon story line, and Sam doing things away from Dean. Don't get me wrong, the brothers need one another and need to work together more often than not, but I enjoy their time apart, too.

So, it really irks me when I see folks automatically downing the single other person that doesn't automatically equate anything non Dean-centered as a bad time in Sam's life. I think that if folks would notice, Sam felt bad about the stuff he did and what *Azael* made him into because DEAN was always giving him shit about it. You know, despite the fact that Dean is a freaking hypocrite that messes up just as much as (if not more!) Sam. Only, Sam doesn't give Dean nearly as hard a time about it.

[darkmanifest]

I think you forgot the part about the secret claiming Sam was happy while he was soulless and drinking demon blood and shit - that's where the troll accusations came from, because Sam was anything but happy. Free from Dean and doing as he pleased, sure, but miserable and/or ultimately fucking up pretty badly, and not because he was brotherless.

It's not Sam's fault he sometimes ends up as a side character in The Dean Show, and I actually got bored with the two of them sharing a liver some time ago. I did really like it when Sam was being a boss while using his demon powers for good - until it turned out Ruby was manipulating him. I liked that he seemed to have his shit together in season 6 while operating alone - until it turned out he had no freaking soul. It seems like Sam is doomed to be a fool or a monster (or both) whenever he stands on his own, unlike Dean, and apparently it's supposed to demonstrate he's better off being superglued to Dean after all, which can't possibly be right because fuck that. I don't resent Sam for wanting to do his own thing, I resent the way it's always being handled.

...why in the world are there two different Supernatural wikis? I have never noticed that before.

[(Anonymous)]

I actually don't think the show has ever really been either the Dean Show or the Sam Show. Sometimes one brother will be more in the forefront for a season, but it ends up equalling out. My inkling as a Dean fan is to think it is more often the Sam Show, but I actually think that when preference for a particular brother is taken out of the equation it ends up pretty equal.

[(Anonymous)]

This secret is definitely made by the same OP as the secret they're whining about. The logic fails are way too similar. And that's why they were accused of being a troll, the secret was full of nonsense.

And I looked at the comments. There was literally ONE comment about how the person was more interested in seeing Dean happy, with a couple of 'me too's after it. Chill.

Also, this? I think that if folks would notice, he felt bad about the stuff he did and about what *Azazel* made him do because DEAN was always giving him shit about it.

Dude, you're not winning Sam any points with this statement. It shouldn't take someone reminding him of his fuck ups for him to feel guilty about his fuck ups. Sam SHOULD feel guilty about a lot of shit.

And LBR, Dean doesn't fuck up nearly as much as Sam (or Cas for that matter). I mean, sure, he's made his mistakes, but he's a better judge of character and a better tactician so he doesn't screw up nearly as often.

The one thing you're right about is that Dean is a hypocrite. But so is Sam, it's like a family trait or some shit.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't look at me man, I'm mostly here for the angel.

Having said that though, I will say this (as someone who likes Sam as a person better of the two brothers and thinks Dean is attractive, entertaining and basically a good guy, but also kind of an ass sometimes:)

Dean has messed up, misjudged, and occasionally screwed the pooch in various ways, yes. But he has yet to suffer his big "fall from grace" the way Sam and Cas both have--a big fat moral failure with catastrophic consequences for everyone, where he really should have known better but went there anyway, despite multiple warnings and danger signs--and I think his character and the plot suffer for it.

He still occupies a spot on the show's moral high ground that makes it impossible for him to interact with either of the others as true equals, because he hasn't had that experience; he can still judge them and they still have no choice but to accept it. The story has been calling for him to initiate his own gigantic clusterfuck and be taken down a few pegs for some time now.

Sam doesn't give Dean as hard a time because Sam hasn't got the moral authority to do so. And to repeat, at this stage of the game I really think that's a bad thing. Neither of the brothers nor Castiel should be in a position to condemn each other after all this time. It's unbalanced and unfair to all of them. And getting pretty old.

[(Anonymous)]

But he has yet to suffer his big "fall from grace" the way Sam and Cas both have--a big fat moral failure with catastrophic consequences for everyone, where he really should have known better but went there anyway, despite multiple warnings and danger signs-

Well, technically, his Deal for Sam's life lead to Dean breaking the first seal to release Lucifer, setting the apocalypse in motion, so I don't think this statement is quite accurate. Technically.

However, I don't see Dean's deal as being on the same level of fuck up as Sam and Cas' choices the last few years, I mean, they REALLY fucked up and were playing with fire that could lead to massively bad shit, whereas Dean had no way of knowing that his deal would lead to the apocalypse, he thought it was simply gonna lead to his eternal torment, end of story.

I actually thought they were gonna have Benny be his big, stupid mistake that made a mess of things, but I was very wrong (and I'm okay with that, I ended up really liking their relationship and would have been sad to see them as enemies), I wonder if they'll try again this season.

[(Anonymous)]

Why is Sam vs Dean even still a thing? I thought 'Destiel shippers are the new batshit' was all the rage in the fandom at this point.

[chaos_dragonfly]

You are definitely not alone, OP. I love everthing that is Sammy too. Always have, always will.

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

Other people have said what I think, and more eloquently than I'd be able to.

The exact things the other secret cited as being good times in Sam's life? Drinking blood, working with Ruby, being soulless? Sam was not happy. Stop thinking those things made him happy.

But I like Sam. I would like to see him happy, but not "happy" because he's doing something insanely destructive while thinking he's in the right. I want him to be happy without destroying himself in the process. I want Dean to be happy too, and Cas.

But I really don't see any of them being able to be happy for long, because that's not what the show is. SPN is not the Happy-Fun Joy Joy Show. It's the "Batshit Bad Shit World Destroying Crap" show where the characters get put through hell, both literal and metaphorical, over and over and over again.

The only time any of them will ever get to be really, healthily happy is when they drive off into the sunset at the end of the final episode. If they don't die in a Bolivian Army Ending.

[(Anonymous)]

I love Dean & Sam equally. I feel like I'm the only one who does.