[ SECRET POST #3160 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3160 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 050 secrets from Secret Submission Post #452.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

01. http://i.imgur.com/cZoPbBu.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

Socially awkward is not an excuse for being a creeper. Nothing excuses being a creeper, and it might make being a creep harder to stop for the creeper, but that is on the creeper to stop creeping not everyone else to tolerate. The days of tolerating the self proclaimed genius nerd creeper are over.

[(Anonymous)]

Could you say Creep a bit more? But yes, basically this.

[(Anonymous)]

+1 To all of this, yes.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's because, while being awkward is understandable, no one has an obligation to tolerate you if you're making them uncomfortable. That doesn't mean they have a right to be a dick to you, of course, but I think that any guy or girl is perfectly in the right to walk away from someone making them uncomfortable.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't really remember how it went down, but I do remember thinking of it as "pushy" and later wondering in hindsight if it was creepy.

So while admitting my memory of the show isn't great, let me just say I do think this post demonstrates how often we mistake people for being "socially awkward" or "withdrawn" and so on when in actuality, they're creepy. They're mean. And so on. My sister's (ex, thank god) boyfriend seemed quiet and not willing to socialize with the family - true, but only because he wanted to control her, and we were an influence he didn't want her to have anything to do with.

(Yes, I know, Urkel was the other extreme and almost stalked Laura. Just saying.)

[(Anonymous)]

It probably makes more sense to think of it as these things being two basically orthogonal scales. Where someone places on the goodness/meanness scale has no real relationship to where they place on the awkwardness-withdrawnness-quietness/smoothness-extraversion scale.

[(Anonymous)]

AVFM or ROK?

[(Anonymous)]

Ya shit.

[(Anonymous)]

Who doesn't Like Amy? Amy is awesome!

[(Anonymous)]

OP's argument is that people like Amy more than Urkel despite them being (in OP's eyes) broadly comparable.

So the fact that everyone thinks Amy is awesome is part and parcel of OP's evidence here.

Couldn't tell you whether they're correct.

[(Anonymous)]

/raises hand

I liked her in the beginning, but am not crazy about how quickly she became all creepy and sex-obsessed with Sheldon and/or Penny. Making skeevy remarks toward people you KNOW aren't down with it is really very un-awesome. The show's since backed off that, but I'm still not enraptured by her character.

[otakugal15]

Amy is a creep. She faked being sick to keep Sheldon to continuing to take care of her and put his hands on her because she didn't respect his notion about sex.

I have no idea how she is now, as I gave up on the show, but as far as I got, she was continuously creepy as far as Sheldon was concerned. Not to mention her worship of Penny.

[(Anonymous)]

The difference is women who are socially awkward do not rape. Neither men nor women are at risk from women who are a little creepy. Men who are creepy do rape. Women are a constant and significant risk from these creeps. That's why women creeps are given less negative treatment.

Do The Creep

[(Anonymous)]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLPZmPaHme0

[darkmanifest]

Urkel crossed the line from "unaware child" to "deliberate creep" around the 6000th time he barged into Carl's house and harassed his daughter, despite both of them yelling at him to stop for years. That's well beyond the point he should have realized he was making them uncomfortable, but it was all part of the gag.

I do wonder if girls get more of a pass for it than boys, though. I've recently seen one tumblrite (I know, I know) make a lot of apologies for a fictional girl stalker whereas she would have utterly destroyed a boy doing the exact same creepy shit. Really don't like that, a stalker doesn't have to be physically dangerous to fuck you up.

[(Anonymous)]

how much of a pass do awkward people get before what they're doing is considered stalking and harassment? the last FS convo I remember about Urkel was about how gross the show was at reiterating "nice guy" ideals that Laura was somehow obligated to give Steve a chance, despite his creepy harassment almost daily.

I've had a socially awkward kid harass me daily when I was in middle school, it doesn't somehow become any less threatening because they're awkward, it just means people will make you feel guilty for legitimately feeling frightened or annoyed by it.

[likeadeuce]

I appreciate this discussion and wanted to add that I have known plenty of socially awkward men who did not harass or creep on people and who knew how to take no for an answer. I have been attracted to guys who were too shy to initiate conversation but were great fun and kind and smart when I got to know them. Plenty of socially awkward men choose not to harass. The fact that harassers use this as an excuse is, if anything, unkind and unfair to people who don't engage in that behavior.

[dani_phantasma]

Person with Asperger's here. Being socially awkward is not an excuse for keeping on when people have very clearly told you NO several times. I was hella socially awkward when I was a teenager. But I think I knew enough that if someone told me several times, and their family members told me "no" or to go away very clearly I would have.

I also know quite a few guys on the autistic spectrum who were the same way. Awkward, yes but also not wanting to upset people.

If someone's uncomfortable with what you're doing, they shouldn't have to put up with it to spare your feelings. Being socially awkward is not an excuse. I hate this line of "but they're socially awkward so let them do things and don't criticize them" . How will they learn if no one teaches them?

I just can't stand the argument here. This is the kind of thinking that makes people with social awkwardness think they get a pass on social boundaries because of it. Which breeds more of the kind of people that piss off people and continue to push the idea of "socially awkward = creepy and maladjusted weirdo". Socially awkward people can still LEARN.

?

[(Anonymous)]

I thought people hated him because he Fonzied all over that show. Except, you know, Fonzie was likeable.

[(Anonymous)]

Because "He's a nice guy, really." Because "You're being unfair, you should give him a chance." Because "Do you really think you're going to do better?" We're told constantly, both in fiction and in real life, that we're mistreating that socially awkward male nerd by not giving him a chance, giving him a date, giving him another date because maybe he was just nervous. We're told constantly that he's not really being creepy, we're just over-reacting, he's a nice guy and we'll really like him if we give him a chance. We're told constantly that we should be flattered by the attention - or, conversely, that it's not really stalking, because honey, you're not pretty enough to stalk.

Our cultural narrative is that male sexual aggressiveness is normal and desirable, and that we should just give in - the popular girl's a shallow, stuck-up bitch if she turns down that guy who's crushing on her, regardless of whether her reasoning is that his personality's obnoxious, or he fails at hygeine forever, or he reminds her of her cousin and that's just weird, or you know what, actually, she likes girls. Female affection is treated as a reward for persistence: mash the buttons enough times, and a vagina will fall out. If we respond with a restraining order instead, we're breaking some tacit cultural agreement, and again: shallow, stuck-up bitch.

That narrative doesn't exist in reverse. Women are told we're not supposed to be sexually aggressive. It's unattractive. We're not meant to be the pursuers, we're the pursued. Characters like Amy are an anomaly, all the more so because she actually gets the guy, and all the more so again because she eventually leaves him. Most aggressive female characters are treated as laughingstocks, so having one who's treated with any degree of sympathy is actually pretty novel.

Urkel, on the other hand, is the distilled essence of the narrative we've had shoved down our throats for ages - he's as loathed as he is because there's finally some backlash against it.

And yeah, he's actually a creep, not a poor socially awkward cinnamon roll, too good for this world, too pure.

[(Anonymous)]

You know we're talking about Urkel, right? Urkel-o's? At the end of the day it's hard to take Urkel seriously. Can't we focus on the joy and cereal Urkel has brought to so many?
#NEVERFORGETSYIREGRETNOTHING

[habilelapin]

Fun Story:

I was once pursued by a RL Urkel. He was very intelligent, and very awkward. He became obsessed with me. From the get-go, I made clear I was uninterested, but he kept on. I tried to be nice, because everyone told me I should be flattered by his attentions. One day though, in the school hall, he tried to kiss me. I turned my head, and he kissed my cheek. He kept on after, no matter how many times I told him he had made me very uncomfortable and I was just not interested. He showed up at my club meetings (I belonged to the NHS, the Thespians, the Alliance, etc), to "walk me home". I ended up having to ask my boyfriend to leave his sports practices early (thankfully, his coaches understood the "I don't want my gf walking home alone" thing) to meet me after. The guy never respected my wishes, but when my boyfriend told him to fuck off, he would, as long as my boyfriend was around. No matter how many times I told this guy that I wasn't interested, and to stay away, if I was alone, he would show up and refuse to leave me alone.

Urkel reminds me of that guy a lot, and it pisses me off that you would even think his behavior was ever excusable. I spent most of my senior year terrified this guy was going to show up at my house, or in my neighborhood, or among my friends. Urkel isn't just "socially awkward". He is so far over the "creepy" line, he couldn't see it with the Hubble Telescope.

[(Anonymous)]

I liked the guide that basically pointed out that socially awkward is socially awkward. To Everyone.

So if they're ignoring other guys when they say no, and accidentally giving them shoulder rubs when they say stop, and all the other boundary pushing? There's a good chance they really are socially clueless.

If they're able to behave around guys and only do it to women? They're a creeper. They're not socially awkward, they know damn well that it would be socially unacceptable to behave that way towards other men, but they're happy to hide behind plausible deniability.

[(Anonymous)]

I love how people call out Urkle on being creepy, but I never see people calling Myra out on her equal if not worse creepiness.