[ SECRET POST #3406 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3406 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 056 secrets from Secret Submission Post #487.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

10. http://i.imgur.com/Pq7vkTe.png

Transcript by OP

[fscom]

I just figured out what makes something a big NOTP for me.

If the subject of romance/dating comes up and a woman says “no” that’s the end of it for me. I can’t ship it, and seeing the ship squicks me out. It just hits way too hard with all the “No” means“ Keep trying!” “I’m not interested” means “I’m playing hard to get” crap I’ve dealt with since puberty. I know people IRL change their minds sometimes, doesn’t matter. No means no, forever and ever, and even after that.

Weirdly, hero/villain ships are fine! As long as romance/dating isn’t brought into it in canon I’m fine with characters who canonly hate each other being shipped. But as soon as romance is brought up and rejected, it squicks me.

No wonder I’ve never enjoyed so much canon romantic stuff.

Re: Transcript by OP

[(Anonymous)]

I totally agree with you, OP.

I've had it happen IRL where I've turned a friend down, who decided they wre interested in me romantically but they still didn't seem to understand that I truly was only interested in them as a friend (this is why I hate the 'friendship zone' idea.) It ended up destroying a ten year plus friendship.

[(Anonymous)]

I can't say I blame you, OP.

I steer clear of the whole "Romantic Comedy" genre because it's all about that narrative.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I feel the same way. I'm really sick of just how often this happens, too.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sorry that romantic tension exists in entertainment media, OP.

[diet_poison]

You do realize there are lots of ways to portray romantic tension besides "lol girl is playing hard to get but you know she REALLY wants him", right?

[(Anonymous)]

Turning someone down and romantic tension are not the same thing

[(Anonymous)]

I find it odd that you specify that the woman saying no is the line you draw, but I assume you feel the same when a man says it and just didn't feel the need to bring it up.

[diet_poison]

I suspect it's because "no doesn't really mean no" is a cultural narrative that is really only applied to women.

[(Anonymous)]

Why specifically women?

I think there's a difference between being persistent and being creepy and that difference needs to be addressed more directly. Because honestly there's nothing wrong with trying again, but there are obviously boundaries.

A good example is in, of all things, the video game Tomodachi Life. Your Miis can express that they want to date another, and if the other declines them, the pursuant either sulks for a few minutes until you cheer them up or they try one more time. If they're declined a second time, they let it go. I think that's a nice illustration of the difference.

Also it's shown as gender neutral.

[(Anonymous)]

do you really have to ask why women if you live in the real world though? the concept that men should be "given a chance" if they try hard enough, or persist, isn't something that exists the other way around. it's the plot of so so many movies.

[(Anonymous)]

Because I wrote it up as a personal squick and wasn't thinking that people might see it as a judgment of the tropes in general. I don't like it when it's the guy saying no, but it doesn't squick me as much. Maybe because it's usually played for laughs and she's pretty clearly not meant to be sympathetic, like Timmy and Trudy from Fairly Odd Parents.

The woman saying no thing just so ridiculously common in media I didn't even think it would ping as a general negative thing. Even just yesterday I'm playing Avengers Academy on my phone and it's -
Tony: Want to go out sometime?
Pepper: Eww, no, you're so immature and annoying. I'd never date you.
And then I upgraded Pepper's armor, which in the game story means Tony's doing it.
Pepper: Wow, I really love this new armor, Tony. Maybe I was wrong about you and we should go out!

And I spent a lot of time being very disappointed at the game.

[elaminator]

I sort of feel this. I also feel similarly about relationships where one person pines after the other forever and the person they're pining after only shows romantic interest in them after years and years. There's something about it that bothers me. Maybe because it doesn't always feel authentic? It can be kind of contrived.

Don't get me wrong, I have exceptions, but often this kind of thing happens with two characters, and I just can't ship them after. (This was how I felt about TW and Stiles/Lydia.)

And anyone who keeps on asking after you've expressed that you aren't interested is someone who can't take a hint, or in some cases doesn't like being turned down or thinks they're entitled to a date, and that's just wrong and irritating.

[diet_poison]

I can't say one person saying "no" makes it a permanent NOTP for me, but I definitely understand how you feel about the hard-to-get trope as a whole.

Fortunately most of the media I consume avoids it most of the time.

[(Anonymous)]

It really depends on the relationship to be honest. There are some times when someone says no because of the circumstances or maybe they hadn't had feelings for the other at that point but there is still some mutual interested and other times they say no and they mean it forever. I don't think there is anything wrong with the chase if both are interested in each other and have good chemistry. It's only creepy and wrong if one person is completely not interested and the other keeps pushing boundaries.

I wouldn't even call those one-sided kinds of ships nOTP's since a ship does not have to be canon or you don't have to want it to be canon to ship it and put your own spin on it so it could work. I mean, I have had ships where they have good chemistry but one side is not interested romantically but I still like the ship in unrequited way. I don't think it has to be so black and white.

[nightscale]

I think for me it depends on how it's done, like with all tropes it can be done well and also done really poorly.

a little OT

[(Anonymous)]

I think this show handled a one sided crush really well - It made it clear that Wendy didn't feel for him that way (he is 12 after all) but didn't begrudge him his feelings (he is 12 after all), and he understood and just wanted them to stay friends (his biggest worry is that she won't want to be his friend if she finds out)

IDK ITS NICE

[(Anonymous)]

My opinion is the same as the first five million times this kind of idea has come up:

It. All. Depends. On. The. Specific. Circumstance. In. Question.

I really just...don't comprehend how some fans are able to apply rules like this upon their own personal preferences like across zillions of wildly different fictional couples with wildly different relationships involving wildly different characters in wildly different stories from wildly different canons. Just...how??? How does one manage to EVER apply rules like this consistently for more than, like, three different examples?

I could pick two pairings that have about 20 identical traits, and yet I hate one and love the other, because the two pairings are still not wholly identical.

Mind you: I'm not saying it's stupid for you to feel this way or that you shouldn't feel this way, OP. I just personally cannot wrap my mind around how anyone could feel and react this way consistently enough for it to become a rule.

[(Anonymous)]

I certainly understand that

I guess the only exceptions might be "no, not right now," or "no, because of current X circumstance"

[caerbannog]

Yeah that's my feeling on the trope. Can't say I'm a fan.

However for Gravity falls I thought it was pretty clear dipper was respecting Wendy's no but still struggled with his own personal crush? There was an episode I liked where young!wendy crushed on him and he found it weird and has a lightbulb moment on how Wendy must feel. Then they were basically just friends without a weird crush in the mix?

[philstar22]

It depends for me. Usually it depends on how canon treats it. Like, if in canon her no clearly means she has no feelings for him and/or the guy won't take no for an answer and/or seems to expect she'll say yes eventually and/or gets offended by the no, then I won't ship. Like Ted/Robin from HIMYM or Winn/Kara from Supergirl.

[bio_obscura]

Yeahhh I'm not a fan.

And I'm trying to think of a ship like this with genders reversed and I can't think of any? Jon Snow/Ygritte, I guess?

[(Anonymous)]

I really hate this trope if it's portrayed as a good thing that the,pursuer's persistence is what wore the other person down until they gave in, and it's supposed to be a good thing. I ship a couple of things, though, where the persistence, or even the entire relationship, is framed as a bad idea. I just hate when it's supposed to be romantic, rather than, you know, stalking.

[wannabe_influential]

I'm sort of the same

If a character decides on their own to change their mind and give them a chance, I don't mind

But if it comes down to "You've been bugging me for months, sending flowers to my house, and generally being a pest so I'm just going out with you so you'll stop", that's a big turn off for me