[ SECRET POST #4057 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4057 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 38 secrets from Secret Submission Post #581.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

If I see a 'Choose not to warn' tag then I basically take that as a sign to proceed with caution

I used to do this in my old fandom, and it worked fine. Whenever I'd come across a fic with this tag, I'd track down the author's contact info, PM them, and wait a day or so for them to get back to me to see what I was in for.

But in my current main fandom, it's just not very effective. Literally 19 out of 20 times this tag is used, it's used for basically nothing. In the beginning I was sending off a ridiculous and time-consuming number of PMs, and there was almost never anything major to be warned for in the first place.

So my choice was, keep sending off a ridiculous number of PMs to vaguely baffled authors who seemed unsure why I was PMing them about a "chose not to warn" tag, or limit my PMs to fics that actually used general tags like "dark," "dakr!character," "seriously guys this isn't happy fun times," "I wasn't sure how to warn for this," and so on. I limited my PMs, which saves me a ton of time (not to mention the time of the authors who were responding to my pointless inquiries), but the result is that I inevitably end up reading some fics I very much would've chosen not to read had I been able to make an informed decision.

Point being not that authors are doing something wrong, but that there's a frustrating glitch in the tagging system (and least in some fandoms, anyway).

[nightscale]

Ah, that sounds like authors who maybe don't understand what the tag is for, which I can get because I can see a new author thinking that it could work for 'there's nothing bad here' perhaps. The Archive does have that tag but maybe they're confused?

Yeah not sure there's a happy medium in this, I just basically expect to come across subject matter I might not like whenever I click on fic and am prepared to back-click. It's not a great system but it's how I do it(I also only have one legit trigger that almost never turns up unexpectedly in fic so I can probably take the risk easier than those that have ones that are more likely to crop up).

[(Anonymous)]

It's not the authors who are using the tag incorrectly, it's the readers who have decided that it's a warning of dark subject matter, instead of an indication that the author isn't going to use warnings.

It's like any other "proceed at your own risk" sign. You might not run into anything dangerous, or you might step in a pothole and break your ankle, and it's up to you to take any necessary precautions to avoid the latter eventuality.

??

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry, but I see this as being a problem that's literally created by you, yourself. OF COURSE authors who labeled their fic "chose not to warn" are going to be baffled when someone PMs them going "Hey, I now you said you chose not to warn, but can you warn me about potentially troubling things in your fic?"

Like... if they wanted to do that, they probably would've just tagged it with the appropriate warnings in the first place. "Chose not to warn" was your very obvious, very unsubtle clue that there are no warnings attached to this fic, proceed at your own caution and take responsibility for your own actions. If you read it and stumble across something you would've rather not read, that's the risk you take. You knew that was a possibility before you started reading. That WAS your informed decision, and if you regret the outcome that is 100% on you.

Re: ??

[(Anonymous)]

"Chose not to warn" was your very obvious, very unsubtle clue that there are no warnings attached to this fic, proceed at your own caution and take responsibility for your own actions.

Wow, you are in some weird fandoms. In the fandoms I'm in, it is considered 100% standard for authors to ALWAYS be available to divulge the content of their fic with the potential reader. A lot of authors who use vague tags actively request that their readers PM them if there's anything they want to know about the content of the fic.

I'd honestly find it pretty rude and out of step with fandom for an author to be annoyed with someone who wanted to know about potential warnings before they started reading. Because certain warnings aren't optional. You can warn for them outright or you can tell people "Look guys, there's stuff in here that I'm not warning for but it's in here," but warning in some capacity isn't optional. At least not in the fandoms I'm in. I'm a little shocked that apparently this is not the case in other fandoms.

Re: ??

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a fic author to always be on call to discuss fic content with their readers. Especially if they opted for the "chose not to warn" tag. Like I said, if they wanted to be explicit and say what's in the fic, I assume they would've done so when they posted it.

It sounds horribly entitled to expect an author to drop everything and do a Q&A with you before you decide to read their fic or not. Like, it's nice if people choose to do that and have the time, but not everyone does and I don't think that's weird. It sounds perfectly normal to me.

Re: ??

[(Anonymous)]

It sounds horribly entitled to expect an author to drop everything and do a Q&A with you

...Okay, um. Why would you think I meant that I expected fic authors to "drop everything"? I never said that. What's standard in my fandom is for fic authors to be willing to respond to PMs inquiring about the content of their fic. That doesn't mean they respond within the hour. I've waited up to a week before, for a fic author to get back to me. (Which I don't hold against the fic author in the least, but it's yet another reason why PMing people to ask about the content of their fic isn't always a feasible solution to the "what does your meaninglessly vague tag actually mean" conundrum.)

Re: ??

[(Anonymous)]

DA

So you do expect them to respond at some point? You said in your original comment about this that you would find it "rude" and "out of step with fandom" if an author was annoyed by your request for a Q&A.

Re: ??

[(Anonymous)]

Your fandoms sound completely nightmarish. I can't imagine expecting anyone to be available 24/7 to hold my hand through the process of deciding whether or not to click their fic.

Re: ??

[(Anonymous)]

Seriously? Why would you assume responding to PMs from potential readers was a 24/7 job?

It's really, really not. I say that as someone who has responded to a few PMs myself. Not that many, because I've only ever used the "Chose not to warn" tag once, but I've gotten three or four, and it takes five or ten minutes to respond. I managed to respond within the first day of getting the PM in most cases, although I did have on case where it ended up taking me three days to get back to the person.

Re: ??

[(Anonymous)]

No, that's pretty damn abnormal. The fact that the authors you're PMing are baffled by your PMs should be a clue there.

And all warnings are optional. That's why the "Chose not to warn" tag exists.

Re: ??

[(Anonymous)]

The fact that the authors you're PMing are baffled by your PMs should be a clue there.

Most of them were not. Usually they got right to the point and seemed like they'd probably responded to the same inquiry from other fans already. But sometimes, yeah, they did seem baffled. I guess those were the authors who were coming out of whatever fandoms you lot are in. *shrugs*

Re: ??

[(Anonymous)]

it is considered 100% standard for authors to ALWAYS be available

I'm really struggling to see how this is a realistic expectation to have of authors. I don't write much fic anymore, but when I did, it was a spare time hobby for me. I still had a job, a family, other relationships, household chores... a whole life outside of fandom. I simply CANNOT be available all the time to serve as someone's trigger warning tour guide for my fic. I'd be baffled and appalled if someone suggested that this is something I needed to do and that it's "weird" if I didn't make myself available 24/7 to do this.

It's nice if there are authors out there who choose to do this, but I think you're looking at it from a very skewed perspective. They're not the normal ones. This is not a standard service. They're going above and beyond the call of duty, and I sure as hell hope your fandom(s) appreciate that instead of assuming this is a service they're entitled to from everyone who writes fanfiction.

Re: ??

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, okay, I think I see where people are getting this 24/7 thing. I did not mean they had to be available ALWAYS. I mean it's standard in my main fandoms for ALL authors to be available if their readers want to PM them asking questions about the content of their fics. Whether it takes ten minutes or ten days for the author to get back to you is entirely down the the author.

Maybe that's not standard in other fandoms, but it's been pretty standards in all the fandoms I've been active in (large, Western, live-action fandoms), and it seems to work out pretty well. I've never felt inconvenienced by anons contacting me. I appreciate them taking the time to do it. I can see how it could be a lot of some of the really big BNFs to take, but then the big BNFs tend to be the ones who just post an inquiry to their LJ and respond to it there so they can answer everyone at once.

Re: ??

[(Anonymous)]

Oh God, you're one of those shrieking "Tagging for Bottom!Dean is mandatory!" crazies. Your little gold fish bowl has a chance of getting broken, just so you know it.

Re: ??

[(Anonymous)]

Lol, some people in this comm have such a weird, defensive hate-on for people who just like tags. Like, I am sorry people on the internet have annoyed you to this point, but I am not the fucking snowflake you are looking for.

I do not care who tops.
I do not care who bottoms.
I do not care if my OTP kiss without one asking the other if it's ok first.
I do not care about noncon tickling.
I do not care if they have sex when they're both a little drunk.

I have experience with sexual assault, and I have experience with the slow death of a parent to disease when I was young. You know, the real and serious shit that content warnings EXIST FOR, because it can be triggering, or, even if it's not triggering, it's just not the shit you want to read in your downtime. I do not enjoy noncon or slow character death at all. I think it's great that most people in fandom (disregarding F!S, apparently) consider it standard to warn for those things, or at least warn that there are things they are not warning for. That's really nice. It makes reading fic in a fandom with a lot of both those tropes much, much easier and more enjoyable. That's why AO3 supplies certain stock warning tags. Because they're the things large numbers of people are likely to want warnings for. How you got from there to "Tagging for Bottom!Dean is mandatory!" is just mind boggling to me.

Re: ??

[tabaqui]

What fandoms are *you* in? There is literally no way to Private Message an author on AO3 unless they put an email in their profile (I didn't), or link to a Tumblr account or something.

And *no* author i know (me being one of them) thinks or is available 'always' for any reason. That's just...bullshite.

Re: ??

[(Anonymous)]

The "always" thing has been covered upthread.

The author is not always available. It seems my phrasing confused people.
In the fandoms I've been in, almost all authors are available to respond to PMs in their own time, whether that time is an hour or a week. They get back to you eventually.

This is true for me. I've gotten back to every potential reader who has ever PMd me to ask a question about one of my fics. It's also been true for the authors I've PMd myself. Usually they've been happy to answer my questions about their fic. Occasionally they've been less enthusiastic. But there's always been an answer.

Re: ??

[(Anonymous)]

Wow, you are in some weird fandoms. In the fandoms I'm in, it is considered 100% standard for authors to ALWAYS be available to divulge the content of their fic with the potential reader. A lot of authors who use vague tags actively request that their readers PM them if there's anything they want to know about the content of the fic.

...what? Who actually does this in what fandom? I've written plenty of fic and I'll be damned if I'm expected to be available at any time to explain what I'm not warning for in my fic.

[(Anonymous)]

The problem is that what most people consider "basically nothing," some people will take grave offense at and send you nasty messages for not warning. So, instead of trying to figure out whether or not you really need to warn for smoking and drinking in a fic about adult characters who smoke and drink in canon, or for mentioning the non-violent death of an adult character's childhood pet, or for an unrequited crush, selecting "choose not to warn" means the same thing as a "no lifeguard: swim at your own risk" sign on a pool.

With the possible exception of major character death, most of the other common triggers shouldn't be coming out of left field anyway. That's just shitty writing for shock value.

OP sort of

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, I agree with your whole first paragraph. I realize why a lot of authors tag the way they do. I'm also not railing against them, as you'll notice. My comment was simply with regards to a particular flaw in the tagging system and how that flaw can be frustrating, and how I wish people would tag - not "you're all assholes if you don't tag it this way."

With the possible exception of major character death, most of the other common triggers shouldn't be coming out of left field anyway.

Yeah, Character Death is the worst when it comes to not tagging, because there's no warning at all. But I've read a fair few fics that ended up having heavy noncon in them where there was very little indication of where it was going. And yeah, maybe that means the writing isn't the best, but that's kind of neither here nor there.

Re: OP sort of

[(Anonymous)]

DA

It's not a flaw. It just doesn't work the way that you personally would like it to work.

[(Anonymous)]

Da- If you have commonly triggering content in your fic and your tag isn't doing anything to warn people about it, that is a flaw.

This is fandom. We tag for noncon. We tag for underage. And if we don't tag them specifically we tag them generally so that people know to avoid if they want to/need to. This is basic fandom etiquette. o_O

[(Anonymous)]

You and your mystery fandom are the weird ones. Speaking even as a reader, I can't imagine having to keep a list of Potentially Readable Fics that I then have to go back to and update as replies from authors pour back in (if they even ever do). That is some insane system and way too involved for a hobby that I indulge in for an hour or two at the end of my day as my herbal tea lulls me to sleep. What's your fandom? I'd like to see for myself if this is truly standard behavior as you say.

[(Anonymous)]

This subthread sure shows that I was right to not put any contact information on my AO3 profile.