[ SECRET POST #673 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #673 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/

Secrets Left to Post: 14 pages, 348 secrets from Secret Submission Post #096.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

123.

[(Anonymous)]

You don't need to be sorry.

I don't want your apology, because I'm the one who should be sorry. I'm sorry I hurt you, I really am.

But what do you expect me to do? Do you expect me to just change my views? I can't, it's just not that easy, and I guess that's the end of that.

Re: 123.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes you should fucking just change them. Your views are wrong.

Re: 123.

[boosette.livejournal.com]

THIS. "Your views" are bigoted, and that you would impose them on others through some asinine legislation like Prop 8 is nothing shy of disgusting.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself, as everyone who voted Yes on 8 should be ashamed of themselves.

Re: 123.

[boosette.livejournal.com]

Which, not you, responder, but the above Anon.

Re: 123.

[llivla.livejournal.com]

I'm definitely not for letting someone off that 'they can't help the way they are.'

But personally I do want to give the OP-apologizer some credit; admitting your way of thinking isn't right is step in the right direction, no matter how small. Your comment is a way of 'doing it wrong' too IMO. :(

Re: 123.

[(Anonymous)]

You actually get more flies with vinegar, and negative punishment works wonders.

They've admitted that their way of thinking isn't right, and yet they STILL support prop 8. At least the religious nutters and zealous homophobes actually believe in what they're voting for, despite being bastards for it. This sorry sack of shit doesn't even have personal conviction and yet they're still willing to remove people's rights to avoid a bit of self-examination and honest thought.

Re: 123.

[ronsard.livejournal.com]

This is something that has troubled me for a long time. I'm going to ask this question as politely as I can, with no intention of instigating any strife.

How could someone who is presumably not only tolerant of but even a fan of homosexual relationships in fandom be against samesex marriage - equal rights for actual, living, breathing human beings?

[(Anonymous)]

what of the right to religion?

[pikabot]

What about it? You don't need to be married in a church to be married by law.

[kristenell.livejournal.com]

This has nothing to do with religion. Churches already have the right to refuse to marry anyone they don't see fit. (See the Catholic Church not performing remarriages after divorce.) Having the government recognize marriage does not force the churches to do anything.

Also you don't get to have right to withhold rights from other people. And not to mention not all churches are against gay marriage, and would happily marry them in places of the churches that won't. (Granted gay people would not want to be married by churches that hate them)

[frostious.livejournal.com]

You have the right to believe whatever the hell you want, but what makes you think it's okay to push your belief on other people, especially when said belief takes away their rights and makes them second-class citizens?

Re: 123.

[(Anonymous)]

IDK fantasy =/= reality?

Re: 123.

[shadsie.livejournal.com]

I haven't replied on anything on FS in a long time... I haven't been into visiting here in a long time, but this whole mess prompted me to reply.

(Any lingering "enemies" of mine who may be lying in wait to bring up crap I said in other places three years ago on this and similar issues can shut up now, because I am a different person now than I was back then).

Now that matter's out of thew way...

I find it supremely ironic that I really, actively dislike slash and yaoi in general fandom... I mean, I'm even a member of the antiyaoi LJ com (because of the behavior of its obnoxious fans, not its sane ones), - I mean, I really dislike it for various reasons I won't go into here -- and have had people call me a "homophobe" for it. I shouldn't have to give excuses - it just doesn't float my boat. At least one person even went so far as to call cry "homophobe" on me for not thinking their personal OTPs of choice where teh canon...

I would have voted down on Prop. 8 so hard had I lived in California. Same deal with 102 (?) if I were living where I used to live (Arizona).

I am a semi-religious person that's apparently obnoxious to many people just for existing. I'm honestly not sure on what my views are regarding homosexuality and scripture. I've seen various interpretations and, in the end, each church and each individual is going to go what what they think is most accurate. All I know, for myself, is that I feel it's my supreme dutyto treat everyone with love, kindness and dignity. I also believe strongly in the seperation of church and state. Religious matters should stay personal, in the churches, in indivudual thought and deed. We live in a plural society and my beliefs may not match your beliefs, so I believe in civil rights for everyone.

I just think it's kind of weird... me, a person who dislikes slash - getting flack for it when I'd like to see people in real life have rights under the law, when there's yaoi fangirls who'll vote down the same.

[(Anonymous)]

Step 1: Look at the person you hurt, and all the other gay and bisexual people (and the ones who love them) your vote hurt.

Is Step 2:

a) Take a very close look at your own views and figure out exactly what it is that you find more important than the rights of all these people--keeping in mind that nothing will affect you or your own marriage--and consider that maybe you're acting a lot like the people who insisted, say, interracial marriage was wrong, or

b) Say, "Too bad, gays are icky, let's change the law to take away rights they had"?

Re: 123.

[kristenell.livejournal.com]

Maybe realize that your views are your own and you should still realize that your government is meant for everyone and that gay people deserve the same legal rights and protections as everybody else.

Re: 123.

[sarolynne.livejournal.com]

Your right to your views only extends so far as it doesn't infringe on other people's rights to be full members of society.

What this means? It means you can have your views, for whatever reasons you have them, and you can disagree with people, and you can part with your freaking privilege of having the law reflect your personal morality or religion. It means you can realize that you believe a thing, but that you have no right to legislate that thing because not only does it impinge upon the civil rights of others, it also hurts your own goddamn friends.

Re: 123.

[adistantplanet.livejournal.com]

When your views hurt the civil rights of others, and you hold these views for no apparent reason, then yes, you should fucking change them.

Re: 123.

[(Anonymous)]

I commend you for realizing that you hurt a friend. So many people in this world are to narcissistic and self-centered to realize that other people, especially people with views opposite of them, have feelings and opinions.

Now comes the next important step. You have to make a choice. Which is more important: your beliefs, or your friendship?

If your friendship is more important, then I recommend making an effort to see beyond the gender and look at the people. These people have feelings. These people feel love too. All they want is for the government, NOT the church, to recognize that they are valid human beings as well.

If your beliefs are more important...then I guess you'll be losing quite a few friends soon.

But in the end, it's your choice. Both options are difficult. I just hope that you make a choice that you don't regret later.

[(Anonymous)]

It doesn't work well either way. If I take a stand on this position, I lose friends either way. Because unlike in fandom, most of my friends in real life ARE yes on Prop 8.

I guess my problem is I do look at the people. And all I'm doing is looking, because I'm not directly effected, because I can see both arguments. And with what limited judgment I do have, I believe the government in California does recognize that they are valid human beings through civil unions.

To be honest, I don't want to argue Prop 8 any further, if that's okay with you. There are too many strong feelings on this and no acceptable gray area, and it's too heated an argument for me to handle. Thank you for your input, though. I really do appreciate it.

Re: 123.

[antiva.livejournal.com]

You should keep your view to yourself and don't inflict other people pain because of it. If you can't change yourself, you should at least stop yourself from hurting others with it, especially when you realize it's wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

Wow that's insulting.

You're basically telling me to stop expressing my views! Just keep it to myself!

I bet you're the type who talks behind friends backs because you "don't want to hurt them".

Re: 123.

[velvet-mace.livejournal.com]

Your views harm real people. Not just hurt. Harm. Cause lasting damage. Cause unnecessary hardships and heartache. Undermines people and relationships. And it does so without a single shred of benefit to society.

Religion has been wrong before. It's wrong now.

Re: 123.

[trustyoursins.livejournal.com]

You don't have to change your views. I really don't give a crap if you do.

However, I do expect you to have the common decency to refrain from trying to force YOUR personal views on ME. YOUR views should not have any effect on MY life.

Your religion =/= the only belief system out there. Your religious beliefs should not be forced on everyone else in the country. Your attitude of "but it is my belief that you should not be allowed to be equal and happy, do you expect me to change my mind?" is if not outright insulting, then incredibly lame. I don't care if you change your mind, but don't screw around with what I can do in my life.

Hint: there is a reason why the Supreme Court ruled that banning gay marriage was unconstitutional. I can't wait until this all goes back to the Supreme Courts again and people get told "uh, you know... we said this was unconsitutional once, and you trying to write a law that says NO NO BUT IT'S OKAY IF WE DO IT NOW (: doesn't actually change the fact that it's still unconstitutional." I am 90% sure that is gonna happen, and I am gonna laugh.

Re: 123.

[valentinite.livejournal.com]

There's a difference between even saying "I don't like it when two people of the same gender marry each other" and AMENDING a fucking state constitution to put discrimination in it. The former might be something you can work on. The latter is just not okay.

And, BTW: I live in MA, and the sky is still in exactly the same place, and no-one's heterosexual marriages have been destroyed by the fact that marriage is open to all up here. No churches have been forced to perform weddings they don't want to, no-one has to attend them, and all that's "being taught in schools" is what the law is -- there's no indoctrination or any of that crap that scaremongers like to talk about.

Re: 123.

[bard-linn.livejournal.com]

YOU are full of awesome for that second paragraph.