[ SECRET POST #5967 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5967 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 28 secrets from Secret Submission Post #853.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

You are engaging in bad faith rhetoric, or are fucking stupid; bitching about how Spike is irredeemable is like 90% of the discourse regarding the character these days. Yes, we get it, people should be ashamed of liking the hot guy and he is totally an evil rapist. Now do be a good person and fuck right off.

[(Anonymous)]

DA doesn’t the majority of the fandom give him a pass on the attempted rape because he didn’t have a soul yet and it was only an attempt?

[(Anonymous)]

I feel like it's still pretty divisive. Idk. It would be hard to tell what a majority thinks bc no one is out here running scientific polls of Buffy Fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

Just passing by, but I think this is a fair point.

[(Anonymous)]

The attempted rape is bad, but it is in the context of him and Buffy playing consensual sex games where they physically injured each other and did use no-means-yes as part of that sexual relationship. It was attempted rape, but because neither he nor Buffy had set a safe word for their no-means-yes violent sex games, it was also inevitable. Also in the context that Buffy had done something very similar to him a few episodes earlier and he had quickly gone from apparently sincerely protesting to actively enjoying the activity too. It was a shitty situation, but also this is what happens when people don't set safewords or discuss their redlines when playing with BDSM. Always set your safewords and discuss limits in advance, children.

And yes, the soulless monster thing too.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

See, this has nuance and I agree with you, in terms of what was actually going on between the characters. And I think a lot of people saw it that way, and also took into account the fact that Buffy was entirely capable of overpowering Spike, so if it came down to one of them forcing the other, the likelihood of her being victimized by him was pretty small.

But the people in fandom who seem to think the point of fiction is to Teach Moral Lessons are 100% resistant to taking stuff like that into account. They want to be right and they want things to be simple, and anything short of "Spike broke an Important Rule, that was Rape, and Rapists are Evil" was and continues to be perceived by them as immoral, confusing, and dangerous. Even though it is really none of these things.

[(Anonymous)]

Bitch, where?

Where are you seeing all this supposed Spike bashing?

I fucking dare YOU to go on reddit or TikTok and try and talk shit about Spike. Go, on, I fucking DARE YOU. You'll get metaphorically gutted and downvoted into hell.

Spike bashing is nothing compared to #Xanderslander. You can't spend five minutes in Buffy fandom without someone, out of fucking nowhere bashing Xander. While Spike can do no wrong, even before he got a soul, and gets fellated on the reg. Xander *breaths* and gets called an incel stalker.

Gitthafuckouttahere!

[(Anonymous)]

I see plenty of Spike bashing on Twitter.

Also Xander does suck. Spike also sucks. Xander's suckiness does take up a larger percentage of his screen time though I think so there is that.

[(Anonymous)]

Twitter? Are you serious? Again, I ask where? Show me, because I can show you a shit tonne of Xanderslander because it's EVERYWHERE.

I can't go anywhere in fandom and not have to endure nonstop Xander hate. It never stops. Never.

There's A. Fucking. Hashtag for Xander hate. Where's Spike's hate hashtag?

And miss me with that 'Both sides suck' bullshit too.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't fucking keep track of every tweet I see someone send about a Buffy character they hate, sorry

[(Anonymous)]

Which is exactly my fucking point!

Every Buffy fandom space, and I do mean every space that isn't deliberately pro-Xander, is saturated with Xanderslader. I don't have to keep track of all of the slander because it's just there: Day in and day out, without fucking end.

It's only gotten worse since the show ended, which I didn't think was possible, but here we fucking are!

[philstar22]

Not nonny, but the difference to me is that canon doesn't want us to think Spike is amazing and nearly perfect. Canon totally ignores Xander's awfulness. Spike starts as a villain, and canon never forgets that. Even when he slowly switches sides, he's always clearly complicated and has the evilness too. And season 7 made clear that the attempted rape was bad.

On the other hand, canon ignores Xander's awfulness. And that's incredibly frustrating. So it makes sense, at least to me, that fandom spends more time talking about Xander's problems. Because canon never does.

[(Anonymous)]

NARYT but also like...the #discourse about Spike predates Tiktok and Twitter AND Reddit so I'm not even a little surprised AYRT doesn't see it these days. The Evil Rapist is a foregone conclusion of an argument, by modern standards, whereas the Nice Guy is an easy target where the comments will get nasty, sure, but not /sexual assault/ nasty.

[(Anonymous)]

+100

[(Anonymous)]

This is about what I was thinking, too.

[(Anonymous)]

NA - You know, I'd agree with you if you'd chill a little and stop being OTT combative about it.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

I actually like Xander, but none of the hate for him ever bothered me. I can actually get a lot of it, even though I still like him anyways. So while I could agree with them that Xander does have more detractors than Spike, I can’t agree with the way they’re acting at all. It’s honestly weird that they’re so angry and combative over this.

Also, they got their answer about a place that has a lot of Spike hate, and they immediately dismissed it just because it’s Twitter? Nah, that’s disingenuous and blatant goalpost moving.

[(Anonymous)]

A fucking lie is not an answer.

[tabaqui]

I liked Xander, too, most of the time, but when the writing got so stupid, I mostly was invested in fan-Xander. He was better and more rounded and didn't keep regressing to high school bullshite.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeahhhh, they are pretty unflatteringly aggressive.

[(Anonymous)]

No kidding. I got to the post they started with "bitch" and thought, this does not sound like it has anything to do with Xander. It sounds like a blatant attempt at derailing the conversation the OP started, about Spike.

[(Anonymous)]

NAH. I'm done being nice about this shit. DONE.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer was my shit back in the day, and despite the crap Joss pulled on the cast, Charisma Carpenter in particular, I still love Buffy. It got me into fandom.

Xander is my least favorite Scoob, but he's still one of the gang, and the hate he gets is over-the=top and inescapable. I can't watch ninety-nine percent of Buffy TikTok because people will not shut the fuck up about hating Xander. Or hang out on r/buffy without every other post turning into a: Xander sucks! circle-jerk. It's ruining my enjoyment of a fandom I've been a part of for decades.

Now people want to pretend Spike is some super hated Buffy character, when I know for a fact, there are plenty of bubble spaces where Spike is lionized as a flawless sex GOD. Which makes their whining obvious, fucking bullshit, and I. Am. Done.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe Xander has a hashtag because there's a neat little rhyme about it. Spikepike? Spike gripe?

[(Anonymous)]

Maaan. You can go on Tumblr and search "anti Spike", it results in anti Spike takes. But also you can continue having rage bonner for all I care

[(Anonymous)]

I can go on Google and search for anti-Spike takes too, but guess what, Maaan? I would have to search for it. It won't randomly pop up on my dash and fyp unbidden the way Xanderslander constantly does.

Not a day has passed when I'm on Tumblr, reddit, TikTok, or Twitter and a video or post that had nothing to do with Xander didn't end up being about hating Xander:

Let's talk about Willow's abuse of magic!
"Yeah, but isn't Xander too possessive of the women in his life?"

Oh! How awful! Spike tried to rape Buffy!
"But what about Xander? He lied about the spell!"

Isn't Dawn annoying?
"Man, can you believe Xander told Dawn about the attempted rape? He should mind his own business!"

This is what it's like all the goddamn time! I have never, ever seen Spike or any other Buffy character get shit on as often and out of pocket as Xander does. It's like people have a physical need to bash Xander anytime Buffy the Vampire Slayer is mentioned. It's a fucking mantra to these people!

It wouldn't piss me off so much if they'd take a fucking day off every once and a while, but no, they literally can't stop!