[ SECRET POST #6030 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6030 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 25 secrets from Secret Submission Post #862.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

That's harsh. I've known people who are very traumatized from bullying and have to trust me a lot to circle back around, eventually, and admit that actually they didn't watch something or don't understand a reference. The fear of being the only one who doesn't know what everyone else is talking about, and the social consequences of admitting it, follows them around decades afterwards.

People lie for a lot of reasons. It doesn't mean they're attacking you.

[(Anonymous)]

+10000


(Some people might consider this a traumadump, so you can ignore this response if you don’t want to read my full response)


Most of my lying was when I was a teenager who’s “friends” would exclude him if he didn’t watch all the things they did. There was no “Oh, you haven’t watched it? Let me gush about it!” that other anons get from these people. And that was just one of the many ways they bullied me. Excluding me was just the tip of the iceberg of that psychological and emotional abuse glacier.

I had to unlearn so much of my coping mechanisms when they were finally out of my life for good. But it wasn’t always easy, and I would still unthinkingly lie, even about silly things like movies I hadn’t seen, to protect myself. Before I reminded myself that my new friends wouldn’t do what my bullies did, and I’m not in highschool anymore. I’ve been much more honest since I unlearned the behaviors. Therapy helped, and so did my family and new friends.

So yeah, I don’t appreciate the implication by association that teenage me was a “lying sack of shit”. AYRT’s self-righteous and black and white comment makes me feel defensive, and I can’t help it. Because there’s nuance for why some people lie. Sometimes it is for simple reasons, but it’s usually not. And the reasons are almost always definitely not to attack the person being lied to. But for fear of being verbally attacked themselves in some cases.

[(Anonymous)]

It’s awesome that worked on that! I’m not being even a little sarcastic, I’m aware that takes a monumental effort. But it doesn’t mean the people you lied to in the past are required to start trusting you again or believe anything you said back then even if you only lied about some things. You lost all credibility for that time and probably some time after, possibly even forever with some of the people you knew then. That’s just how it goes. Lie and get branded liar.

[(Anonymous)]

Lying about having seen a show is not that serious bro. Reflect on why *you* have such a knee-jerk reaction to white lies.

[(Anonymous)]

I know exactly why I have no tolerance for lies. You not agreeing with me isn’t going to change anything *shrug*

[(Anonymous)]

Have to agree with this anon. "Lying" is not even an across the board social faux pas, let alone a mortal sin. And if someone's morality is so black-and-white that there's no room for a person to lie about anything, ever, I probably don't want to be anywhere near them. That's evangelical-grade moral absolutism.

[(Anonymous)]

And yet here you are in the thread started by a person you said you didn’t want to be anywhere near.

Look, I didn’t go into any other comments and start throwing shit at the multiple people who said they also lie. I wasn’t even an asshole to the person who came into my thread and said they used to do that. I think it’s shitty behavior to lie to someone’s face and if someone does it to me I cannot trust them about anything. Ever. Even if it’s a lie YOU think is ok.

But I do wonder at the many people in this thread that imply it wouldn’t erode their trust in someone. It is human nature to trust someone less when you know they lied to you. It’s a nearly universal mammalian trait.

At work I don’t put my subordinates into positions where they feel they have to lie because then I cannot objectively perform their reviews. But if any of the people I do lightly socialize with lie to me I avoid having anything to do with them again. And more often than not the people who compulsively lie about things you don’t think matter also go on to lie about much bigger things. Not always but damn close.

I do wonder a bit also if some of this isn’t a matter of imaging vastly different scenarios: I’m speaking about actual occurrences that took place face to face in which someone repeatedly pretended something that wasn’t true. I wouldn’t judge someone on social media the same way if it were something like a tumblr post or a tweet or anything like that. I also wouldn’t care as much if it were a passing stranger but then again, I wouldn’t be in that kind of situation so that’s a moot point. I’m only ever in that position with people I am around regularly and have to have some measure of trust with. “Is Linda telling the truth about what happened? Or is she lying to cover her ass? She IS the type to lie about being a fan of a tv show she’s never seen.” Yeah, that’s a real thing. And in Linda’s case she was lying to cover her ass and no one trusts her even a little but HR recommended to the bosses not to fire her so most everyone tries to avoid having anything to do with her.

[(Anonymous)]

DA you complimented the anon on having worked to improve themselves, but that doesn't mean you weren't an asshole to them. Maybe you should consider working on yourself in a similar vein so that your own experiences don't filter into others, like now.

[(Anonymous)]

those people don't deserve honesty.

[(Anonymous)]

Your takeaway from someone lying to avoid being bullied is that the /bullies/ don't trust them anymore? Get over yourself.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

[(Anonymous)]

Ps: you know this but your friends sucked. I’m happy for you that you have a healthier social circle now!

[(Anonymous)]

This.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

All of this. You put everything I was alluding to in much more specific terms than I could have. And I think it's a shame that the person I replied to decided to come and entrench in "I'm a survivor too, and that gives me every right to be maximally judgmental about anyone ever lying, about anything, no matter how trivial!"

Much as I disagree with that, I'm going to assume they're doing the best they can, too.

But I think you did a lot of other anons who were wondering "why would anyone lie about having watched a show?" a favor by explaining. Because most people who don't think like that, and wouldn't be gleefully exclusionary and cruel to someone over nothing, can't imagine what it's like to be on the recieving end of that, if they haven't been.

[(Anonymous)]

TOP

And I think it's a shame that the person I replied to decided to come and entrench in "I'm a survivor too, and that gives me every right to be maximally judgmental about anyone ever lying, about anything, no matter how trivial!"
That didn’t happen.

I’m not required to trust anyone who has proven they are liar even if you would. That’s it. That’s all.

SA

[(Anonymous)]

I think you’re mistaking someone else’s comment for mine. The one about trauma reasons for mistrust isn’t me. My reasons have nothing to do with trauma and nowhere did I claim that they do. I just flat out don’t trust anyone who isn’t honest. I don’t know if it’s a location thing or a career field thing or a generation thing but in my experience, compulsive lying is extremely rare in adults and not trusting compulsive liars is extremely common. If the teens next door me lied to me I’d second guess some things they say over the next few years but ten years from now I wouldn’t because in my experience very young people lying to fit in or seem older or more worldly or cool is common. But after around 22 or 23 that behavior is character defect.

Re: SA

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Yes, I did think you and another anon were the same person. No offense meant.

I have no way of knowing if your opinion is career related or age related or simply a you-thing. (But I can think of many more jobs where people are absolutely required to lie than ones where they are even allowed to be honest!) And no, I don't think you "have" to do anything the way I do it. However, if you're defining "honest" as "never lies about anything" it seems quite impossible to me that anyone should qualify as that. There are situations where I will mistrust individuals in the future for not giving me accurate information, but there are a great many more when it's of no consequence to me.

I've helped people get out of abusive situations by lying to people who had power over them. I've protected myself from unscrupulous people with a poker face and zero guilt over lying and keeping it up for as long as I had to. And these are just the extremes. The way I see it, there are degrees to what people are entitled to know about me: the ones who earn my trust and affection get to hear things that everyone else doesn't. Whether they know what to ask me about or not. And everyone else doesn't - even if they ask and expect me to "be honest."

To the extent that I've ever had reason to complain about "compulsive" liars, as opposed to everyone else, it's because they're erratic and can be easier to see through. IME, that's always covering a more complex problem. I've met none that are functional enough to really be out to get me, in any sense. But they're certainly capable of screwing other people over incidentally. So, you're right that I don't trust someone very far if I see they improvise lies to save situations that seem to be going wrong for them. And wind up having to do that a lot. But I've also never seen any good come from berating them over it.

[(Anonymous)]

It doesn’t matter to me why they lied, it only matters that they lied. If someone cannot be honest about minor stuff like watching a tv show or movie, then obviously I am not going to trust them about anything. You can excuse it all you want but that doesn’t mean I have to *shrug* Good on them if they eventually work on failings and decide to be honest people but it’s ridiculous to assume everyone is suddenly going to believe them about anything.

[(Anonymous)]

Do you want an award for your moral integrity? Do you really not understand how trauma can produce an instinct to lie for self-protection?

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Do you really not understand how trauma can produce a self-protection instinct to not trust people who lie about random shit?

[(Anonymous)]

They’ve already said that they’re hatred for liars doesn’t come from trauma. They’re treating someone who’s behavior has come from trauma callously. So it’s weird that you’re defending this.

SA

[(Anonymous)]

Or maybe it is that anon. There’s so many to keep track of. And it definitely doesn’t help that several are saying similar things but one says they were bullied and the other says they don’t feel this way because of trauma.

[(Anonymous)]

Did you miss the DA?

Outside of life and death situations, lying is a societal ill. If you're lying because of trauma, get thee to a therapist. The trauma is not your fault, but the actions you take stemming from it are absolutely your responsibility.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT I absolutely understand that can trauma can be and usually is the reason for compulsive lying. That doesn’t make the person any more trustworthy though. Lie to me and I won’t trust you. And that’s really not as uncommon in the real world as so many in this thread make it seem. It’s true of cats and dog and chimps and elephants and horses, to name a few animals that have been researched extensively in regards to social trust. Humans are more likely to be forgiving because trust is no longer vital for our individual, communal, or species survival.

[(Anonymous)]

People can have trauma reasons why they lie. But also people can have trauma reasons for hating when they are being lied to. So
And even without black and white strong response I don't think a lot of people enjoy being lied to. So people making this small lies are doing themselves a disservice