[ SECRET POST #2125 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2125 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 124 secrets from Secret Submission Post #304.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat x 4 and counting. Bets? ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

12. http://i.imgur.com/QWI3t.png

[(Anonymous)]

In a way, I feel this secret conveys my frustration with the Jack/Ianto ship and why I avoid most slash badfics with them in it. There's nothing wrong with the ship. It's just that most people don't acknowledge Jack is pansexual and Ianto is bisexual. It's gotten so bad that I have a list of slash writers I avoid every time the Torchwood Three newsletter goes up.

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly! I also especially hate this in the Torchwood fandom.

[writerserenyty]

This is pretty much it.

[(Anonymous)]

I think the really good writers of Jack/Ianto don't do that at all, there are some writers of badfics who do, but most acknowledge the past relationships of both characters without claiming that Lisa or Estelle were some kind of beards. .

[halfcutrussett]

Oh man, OP, I understand the infuriation.

I really hate the need to make characters only gay "for you", or completely ignore any incidences of heterosexuality.

For a long time I thought it was just because I tend to headcanon a lot of characters as bi, and it was just annoying because it didn't fit my headcanon, but now it's one of the things that makes me back button :/

[(Anonymous)]

It's just fanfic. Breathe.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm okay with it for some characters but for others it just...doesn't work for me. Like, John Sheppard for SGA? I could definitely buy bisexual. But gay? Ehhhhh. Not saying it's impossible or anything (I mean, you could definitely work the "he's in the military and he feels pressure to hide his true sexuality by acting like a ladie's man" angle, but I never really liked that much) but I got tired of seeing all these "he's secretly gay" fic.

I feel like Glee actually did this in-show. In one episode, they have Santana saying she likes having sex with literally everything (including a vaguely human shaped shrub). I liked her as a woman who was very in touch with her sexuality and knew what she wanted and wasn't picky about who she got it from. She wasn't ashamed of herself and didn't care what people said about it. And then all of the sudden (I think it was like the next episode) she realizes she was a lesbian all along and we got a bunch of stupid angst about it for a while because Glee needs drama and shoe horning moral life lessons into shit. Again, I'm not saying it's impossible that she was a lesbian the whole time. But I feel like there should have been some kind of deep soul searching and an epiphany of some kind and Glee just...didn't really make me buy it.

[(Anonymous)]

THIS. My biggest problem is when an author brings the dead wife back to life (time travel, zombie, vampire, ghost, etc) just to prove how the widower is so much better off with his best friend, and his best friend is awesomesauce, and more beautiful than the dead wife ever was, and then widower decides he loves the best friend more than he ever loved anybody, including that woman he was married to, whatever her name was. And anyway the best friend has a dick, which is so much better than a vagina. Bonus points if the best friend is then turned into the girl in the relationship and only bottoms, ever. I didn't know authors could be so insecure and threatened by a old lover, let alone a fictional dead and buried wife, but it's true, oh it's true.

[(Anonymous)]

I have been told time and again that making a character bi is the "easy" way out.

I guess since it's not PC to call characters slutty anymore that's what that is supposed to mean? I dunno. Some guys like like guys, some guys like girls, some guys like both. *shrugs*

In conclusion: I don't understand.

[unicornherds]

Agreed. Also, some people really do take a long time to come to realization of their sexuality. This in no way makes their earlier relationships fake or "beards" or bad. I know a guy who was married for years, had a kid, perfectly happy loving relationship but in his forties realized he's gay. Didn't invalidate the relationship and he still loves his now ex-wife.

Writers need to realize that sexuality is not black and white. There are a lot of ways to write your slash pairings without making the women evil, beards, hated, etc.

[ariakas]

I don't know, I've seen "bisexuality exists!!!" as a premise to slash characters who have straight relationships in canon more often than I've seen what you're describing. Far more often. Probably depends on the fandom, ages, etc., but it's certainly been the case in my experience.

In fact, that in and of itself can get a little tiresome. Of course bisexuality exists. But not everyone is bi. Closeted gay men also exist. Some of them with very understanding partners. Also, people who are asexual, poly, etc.

[streetcake]

I don't hate the "I'm gay for you!" thing so much since they could be a one on the Kinsey scale and not know it. It's usually badly written when it is like that though, so I do avoid it usually...

But yeah, about the whole past relationship thing, I can't read slash fic that does that to their opposite-sex love interests.

[citrinesunset]

For me, it depends.

I agree that bisexual erasure is definitely something that happens, and that sometimes people seem to bend over backwards to make a character gay when having them be bisexual would make a ton of sense.

But I also dislike the inclination I see sometimes to automatically make any character bisexual if they've had relationships with people of the opposite gender. The fact that a character used to be married or has dated people of the opposite sex doesn't always mean that they can't be gay.

For me, it depends on the character. I write some characters as bisexual, but there are other characters I like to write as gay. Sometimes I'm more interested in the idea of a character being gay, and what that means in regard to their previous heterosexual encounters/relationships. I don't like it when writers treat past heterosexual relationships as insignificant, or make the gay character blase about stringing their opposite-gender partners along. But I find the idea of someone trying heterosexual relationships because they want it to work or because they genuinely care about the other person and want to be attracted to them interesting to write about.

So I don't think this is a black or white issue. Sexuality is complex, and I think fiction should ideally be able to depict that. It totally depends on the character and the story you're trying to tell.

[thren]

I have an associated peeve; the 'it wasn't really love'. Because apparently people only get to be in love once in their whole life, so whatever they had with their previous (often canon) SO was clearly not love because this new ship IS love.

This makes me rage. It's a fucking ridiculous attitude and it's one thing if it's written by dumbass teens who don't know any better, but adults write this bullshit all the time.

[sensualcoco.livejournal.com]

For the most part I agree. But occasionally there's that character where you really can see their past relationships as a front. Either they didn't get serious with the girl, or maybe they were serious but weren't truthful with themselves about who they were. Though, I imagine that kind of story takes a bit more subtlety than what you're describing.

[(Anonymous)]

What annoys me most are the slash haters who go "But he isn't GAY" at every slash pairing.

NO MAYBE HE ISN'T GAY but he could still be BISEXUAL damnit!

[sarnath]

I hate "We're Not Gay, We Just Love Each Other" so, so much.

And yeah, previous relationships should be acknowledged if you're writing something that's supposed to be canon compliant. But depending on the character, I don't think being closeted, or having less passionate feelings for a previous lover is automatically a bad thing. It all depends on how it's done and who you're writing.

[(Anonymous)]

What I hate is when the writer feels the need to completely trash the existing/past het relationship in situations where it's totally unnecessary, i.e. the canon het relationship isn't serious and may not even have been going on for very long. Can't you just say they didn't work out and leave it that? Make it a mutual break-up without cheating and drama?

[author_by_night]

ITA. And honestly, why is it that if the girl really is just a beard being used, she's the bad guy? It never made much sense to me. A few friends of mine used to ship two Harry Potter characters together, and when he was revealed to have a female love interest they were all "oh, okay, he's bisexual!" Meanwhile, all of these shippers were freaking out. I didn't really ship the two male characters and even I jumped on the "he can be bisexual, people" bandwagon.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, that bugs me too.

I like OT3s. I like characters discovering bisexuality, or coming to terms with their bisexuality later in life. It's more interesting to write that discovery, it's just plain lazy to write out the female characters, not to mention kinda sexist.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with being gay, or bi, but - just to put it out there, there are men and women both who really *do* use the opposite sex as beards, and there are those whose sexuality does end up changing later down the line. I'm not saying that it's not an over-used, and frequently ooc, plot device - it is. It really is, just like any time a sexuality gets handwaved, imo. But I could see where there could be characters where one of those scenarios could work and be ic too.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't mind bisexuality in slash, but I think you don't understand bearding.

I'm exclusively gay (of the lesbian variety), at least romantically, and I've had beards. I think in the back of my mind I knew I was gay, but I hoped I could be bi, because I was in a really homophobic situation at the time and being in a heterosexual relationship made things a lot easier for me. And if I was bi, I could just focus on men for the time being, and everything would be okay.

I didn't set out to use those boyfriends, and for each one, I genuinely liked him as a person (and the feelings of friendship did muddle things from my end, to be honest) and I genuinely hoped things would work out. Most exclusively gay people in straight relationships aren't thinking, "yeah, I'm gay, but I can't come out right now, so I'll just pretend to be dating this girl/guy", and if they are, usually the beard is in on it.

I also sometimes feel that it can be kinder to break up a canon het ship for a preferred slash ship by writing the guy as gay. That way, the reason he prefers the male love interest to the female one has nothing to do with the girl as a person, it's entirely on him.

[(Anonymous)]

"character assassination," lol

[(Anonymous)]

There's nothing wrong with being of any sexuality, straight, gay, bi, pan, ace, etc. I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but what is it with people going "You're straight? ...oh. How BORING." I almost feel like I'm being shamed for being heterosexual. Eh.