[ SECRET POST #2185 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2185 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[not a repeat; was broken yesterday]


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[not a repeat; was broken yesterday]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 034 secrets from Secret Submission Post #312.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Oh is that the scene?

Well, I didn't find him whiny, but I felt like he was a complete asshole to Wilf. Here's Wilf, ready to die a final death, to sacrifice his life for the Doctor, and the Doctor is just sitting and screaming about Wilf should go, because he's more important blah blah. And all I can think is 'You have two more regenerations. You're a complete ass.'

It doesn't help that prior to this he was crying over the Master's body. I really hated all the attention and care he gave to the Master. How he wanted to keep him alive, even though this guy is established as extremely dangerous and fucking COMMITTED GENOCIDE ON THE HUMAN RACE not too long ago. But, oh no, Doctor needs a friend.

Ten was so full of himself it's not even funny. Constantly stomping around telling everyone he did what was best, they didn't deserve to have a say, Earth was his to command, etc. I like Eleven a lot more for being more caring in that sense and less controlling.

[fauxkaren]

Yeah, Ten was being kind of a dick, but in the end, he still chose to die so that Wilf could live, so he's allowed to angst about it a bit, imo. He still chose to do the right thing in the end.

And the stuff with the Master is more complicated than that? It's not just about the Doctor needing a friend. The loss of Gallifrey were shadows that hung over Nine and Ten and the Master was a part of that? Ten had previously wanted to believe that the Master could be redeemed and he didn't want to let go of the last bit of Gallifrey that he had.

Wait. What? Eleven is less controlling re: Earth? Did you not watch the opening two parter of series 6??? He brainwashed humanity to kill the Silence. That's pretty controlling imo.

[(Anonymous)]

Wait. What? Eleven is less controlling re: Earth? Did you not watch the opening two parter of series 6??? He brainwashed humanity to kill the Silence. That's pretty controlling imo.

Well, he tricked the Silence into brainwashing humanity. But I think this is less controlling than what Ten was capable of, which was to control people against their spoken wishes, and to declare himself in the right of things he shouldn't have been controlling in the first place.

[(Anonymous)]

I think what they meant was that Eleven wasn't controlling about the little things. When humanity was kinda being enslaved by aliens they couldn't remember seeing, yeah, sure, he was controlling. But he didn't butt into everything and tell everyone how to live their lives as often as Ten did. Of course he did do that sometimes -- I mean, he IS the Doctor, and a Doctor who isn't kind of an condescending arrogant jerk is a Doctor who's just plain doing it wrong or fooling himself, but Eleven -- and Nine -- didn't jabber on about how good and wonderful and morally righteous the scary shit they did was. They were pretty much open about how "yeah, sorry, it was either this shitty scenario or a more shitty scenario. *shrugs*"

I don't think that made Eleven or Nine necessarily better than Ten though. Less irritating maybe, but I think Ten was acutely aware of, and bothered by, the fact that he had to do so much scary shit to achieve good outcomes like keeping innocent people safe and defeating evil villains, and tried to justify it by trying to talk a big game about how what he was doing was awesome, really, to convince himself he was a good person who was doing good things, not a monster.

Which is a problematic way of doing things (see: Waters of Mars) but at the same time I understand and sympathize with how he saw it. I think Eleven's bluntness about how making the "best" choice can still be pretty damn shitty (see: The Beast Below) was kind of a backlash against Ten's excesses of self-justification, similar the way Ten's idealism and zealousness about acting like a "good" guy and being justified in his actions grew out of a lot of Nine's jadedness and cynicism and self-hatred over the Time War.

And anyway, even Ten wasn't as controlling about the little things as Seven. Or Eight, who was the one who kinda killed all the Daleks and Time Lords. Methinks the people who bash Ten for being sooooooo controlling are missing a bit of perspective.

[(Anonymous)]

"yeah, sorry, it was either this shitty scenario or a more shitty scenario."

hit the nail on the head why I hate NuWho with a passion tbqh

[(Anonymous)]

Even as a fan of the new series....yeah, the depressingness and "lol it's all crap do you want this crap or that crap? Either way, you'll still be miserable and guilty and all your nice things will be taken away" really goes too far sometimes to the point of desensitizing viewers to the pain of hard choices.

I was so sure it was just a nice explorative period that we were going to leave that behind when season 5 ended on such a deliriously happy and joy-filled and positive note (the death toll was in the negative numbers!) ...and then we got season 6. *facepalm*

[(Anonymous)]

I can't believe there are people who actually think that the doctor MEANT those word's he said to Wilf. He didn't and that was the point!
he explained that regenerations were like death to him and he was the most human doctor. Death is what humans are most afraid of. We needed a doctor like that.

then he did it, he survived, he MADE it and then there are the four knocks and he understands that it has to happen anyway. he DID a lot for the world (no matter what regeneration, you can't just talk about ten) and he was angry with the world because it didn't give anything back. It just stole his companions and relied on him.
WHO wouldn't be angry and hurt? Didn't he deserve a reward? (he understood afterwards that he had to get his reward himself, like he has to do everything else himself, too.)

concerning The Master: they both committed genocide. They're not that different in some parts...and in the other parts... the doctor hoped that there was still hope for The Master, too.

I think the problem is that Ten had a soul and some who watched him and comment here, clearly don't..

[(Anonymous)]

I know he didn't mean it.

It doesn't matter.

It shouldn't have been said.

He KNOWS he would continue to live.

Wilf was going to die, and Wilf offered to sacrifice himself. It was disgusting for such an immortal, knowledgeable being to take a few kicks at Wilf to make himself feel better.

As far as not getting a reward--are you joking? Ten is pretty stuck up in this way, but he has a fucking time machine and literally anything anyone could want. He's constantly making the dearest of friends, the closest of companions, whole species worship him. He's just not satisfied with them, and that's fine. But in an objective sense, he HAS been rewarded. The TARDIS is the biggest reward anyone could ask for.

concerning The Master: they both committed genocide. They're not that different in some parts...and in the other parts... the doctor hoped that there was still hope for The Master, too.

The Doctor, at least, committed genocide to save many other lives. No one considers this a bad thing. The Master is just evil and kills people for no good reason. It's perfectly rational to not blame the Doctor, and to blame the Master. But the Doctor was supremely selfish to try and keep the Master around.

[wldcatsprstr_14]

Wilf was going to die, and Wilf offered to sacrifice himself. It was disgusting for such an immortal, knowledgeable being to take a few kicks at Wilf to make himself feel better.

Maybe that's why Wilf could make that sacrifice. Because his death would be final. No remembering who he was or what he did or what he used to be like.
No getting used to a new body, new voice, new face.

Ten already showed how much he didn't like the idea of waking up suddenly changed one day. Even though the Doctor is something of an immortal, his incarnations still 'die.' Ten would never be Ten again. I don't really think I can fault Ten for wanting to stay Ten. Hearing 'well you'll wake up tomorrow and you'll technically be the same person but also completely different from who you are now' wouldn't really make me OK with dying today, especially if I'd already experienced that before and decided I didn't like it.

[(Anonymous)]

I replied to someone else that I agree: it's pretty scary. I don't fault him for being upset, I fault him for being so nasty to Wilf and so melodramatic about changing minds.

I mean, jeez, Doc, you have 12 lives, you've lived a thousand years! I mean, shit, at least there's suicide if you decide you really think that final death is better than change. And clearly the Doctor's never tried that, so I imagine he prefers regeneration. He has the OPTION, something Wilf will never have. When Wilf dies, he has nothing. No dreams, ideas, thoughts, adventures. He'll leave behind people who can never have another memory made with him.

Check your Gallifreyan privilege, is unfortunately what I think I'm saying.

[(Anonymous)]

Except he never "decided he didn't like it" before. He was perfectly fine with it when he regenerated into Ten from Nine. And all the previous times he regenerated, he was also fine. He'd gripe about how his ears were too big and his predecessor's dress sense was crap and how he looked weird and thought weird and felt weird and his teeth are weird and geez, look at that hair, why do I have such bad hair? but he never "didn't like it". It's a natural part of being a Time Lord. All Time Lords do it. He did it. He remembers it, and he's still basically the same person (yes, RTD's "new man walks off with my memories" thing was a completely unsupported asspull that had never happened before) It's not like it was some unique curse that was foisted on him.

I should also not that, as much as I hated Ten's regeneration concept, I though the regeneration was handled very nicely. "oh no oh no this is going to be terrible oh god I don't want to go what if this all is a huge disaster what if something really horrible happens -- wait. Legs! I've still got legs! And sure, my chin's too big and my hair's too long and I'm crash landing, but I've had worse noses! This is just fine! What was I complaining about?" It was like, a nice little gentle, respectful way to defuse Ten's angst without making him look bad, making it seem more like he just was having a really bad time and some really bad anxiety problems at the moment that now all seem a little silly in hindsight, but not bad in any way.

[(Anonymous)]

I always thought it was pretty clear that Ten said those words in a sarcastic way. and I always believed that Wilf knew that and wouldn't EVER blame him for that.

he would live, yes, but not like before. Dying is still dying!
He ISN'T immortal. There is still a chance of ACTUALLY dying before the regeneration works. you should know that. and it is his right to fear that.

And about the reward thing: NOW you really want to make him human. in everything. but he isn't. he is from another planet and he grew up with all the talks about time and space and even the TARDIS is a normal device from where he comes from. It's nothing special there... just like regenerations. how can you say that's his reward? It's not a REWARD it's everything he has LEFT.

Killing is killing. No matter for what reason. and I'm sure Ten thought, if there is hope for The Master then there is hope for himself, too. He didn't forgive himself for that yet, even if it was the right decision. It's not that easy.

at last, I'll just copy what I said in my own comment:

This regeneration was unlike others. It didn't happen out of a moment. he had to prepare for it. He KNEW it was coming. (And Eleven learnt from that, when he faced the astronaut.)

I can't believe there are people who pick their favourite regeneration... It's always the doctor. And whatever changed him in his new generation is the result of what happened before.

[(Anonymous)]

And about the reward thing: NOW you really want to make him human. in everything. but he isn't. he is from another planet and he grew up with all the talks about time and space and even the TARDIS is a normal device from where he comes from. It's nothing special there... just like regenerations. how can you say that's his reward? It's not a REWARD it's everything he has LEFT.

He stole the TARDIS. It was not owed to him. Having a car is pretty normal in most first world countries, but most people appreciate and are excited about having cars. They like the opportunities it offers him.

And I'm saying there's pretty much no reward that can be offered to him greater than what he already has. I'm sorry, but the Doctor has been rewarded enough. He gets all of time and space as his reward, something almost no other person has.

I can't believe there are people who pick their favourite regeneration... It's always the doctor. And whatever changed him in his new generation is the result of what happened before.

I can't believe you don't understand why one would.

[(Anonymous)]

"The Master is just evil and kills people for no good reason."

The earlier regenerations of the Master had waaaay more depth than Ten!Master did. The whole "eye of Harmony" thing notwithstanding.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I was more or less remarking on what that regeneration of the Master had done and did. I mean, no matter what you did or why you did it before, "I'm killing billions for fun" is enough to die.

[(Anonymous)]

I know he didn't mean it.
It doesn't matter.
It shouldn't have been said.
He KNOWS he would continue to live.

In other news, people sometimes say hurtful things they don't mean when they're tired, scared, and frustrated. Even if they regret it or shortly after explicitly take it back by word or deed, they're still ridiculously awful people!

[(Anonymous)]

"We needed a doctor like that."

WHY

If I wanted to watch Corrie instead of plugging my ears and holding my nose when it's on, I'd watch Corrie, woudn't I?

[wldcatsprstr_14]

Ten was so full of himself it's not even funny. Constantly stomping around telling everyone he did what was best, they didn't deserve to have a say, Earth was his to command, etc. I like Eleven a lot more for being more caring in that sense and less controlling.

LOL @ this. Nine AND Eleven both do this as well. Ten was just the most up front about it. And I kinda prefer that approach than Nine and Ten pretending they don't think they're the shit and that humans are oh-so Important. All three are arrogant, boastful, controlling jerks in their own way; Ten just didn't make you dig so deep to see it. And this is from someone who considers Nine her Doctor.

[kamino_neko]

this guy is established as extremely dangerous and fucking COMMITTED GENOCIDE ON THE HUMAN RACE not too long ago.

The Doctor himself committed genocide (or at least attempted to with about as much success as the Master's attempted genocide against humans) against both Galifrey and the Daleks, so it's not like his moral high ground is all that firm.

[(Anonymous)]

The Doctor himself committed genocide (or at least attempted to with about as much success as the Master's attempted genocide against humans) against both Galifrey and the Daleks, so it's not like his moral high ground is all that firm.

It's totally firm, and I'm boggled when people use this excuse. He commits genocide on species who are trying to commit genocide on other species. Species who are trying to kill others to keep themselves alive. No matter what, you can argue that the Doctor always did it for the greater good in an objective sense.

The Master was just murdering the shit out of people for fun. The Doctor also saved the universe, galaxy, solar system, planet, etc so many times he's better off alive to the whole universe. The Master just destroyed.

[kamino_neko]

you can argue that the Doctor always did it for the greater good in an objective sense.

An argument that the Doctor himself was wise enough to reject. He knew he had committed a cosmic scale atrocity, and has spent his last 3 regenerations atoning. 'Everybody lives, Rose. Just this once, everybody lives.' 'I am not a good man.'

Is the Doctor a better man than the Master? Most certainly.

But a significant part of what makes him better is recognizing that his hands aren't clean, and never, ever attempting to justify evil acts.

[(Anonymous)]

Uh, I think an entire species being murderous and hostile and bent on total destruction is good enough.

And I think it's the laughable conceit of some of the fans that they think 'oh, well, he's so immortal and knowledgeable and we totally can't look at his actions like that you just don't know you're human" blah blah blah.

A fucking human being wrote him. There's no godly POV in Ten. There's only a human one. And, yes, while his hands might not be clean, he would be PERFECTLY excused for justifying his actions. Anyone who thinks otherwise should grow up--honestly, the Doctor's childish views on morality are one of my issues with the show.

[intrigueing]

Uh...well, not really. "kill a bunch of people to save the entire universe" =/= "kill a bunch of people for shits and giggles".

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you! It's really bizarre people keep bringing this up. Like...do you not see the difference between a psychopath and a regretful, say, police officer? The Doctor doesn't go around looking for people to kill.

[(Anonymous)]

Genocide stops being genocide when there are reasons behind it.

I see.