[ SECRET POST #2192 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2192 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Tales of the Abyss]


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[Merlin, RPS]


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[Lilo & Stitch]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 032 secrets from Secret Submission Post #313.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[childings.livejournal.com]

GEEZ can someone PLEASE make this point about fandom being a valid "real life" activity WITHOUT shitting all over people who choose to party or have other interests JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

YOU'RE NOT HELPING

And for the record, I'm an introvert but that doesn't mean I avoid parties and social events and going outside, being introverted =/= a shut-in, I have friends and I can enjoy myself at a party, I just don't do it all the time and I feel a bit exhausted afterward, doesn't mean I don't have a good time

[(Anonymous)]

...okay o_o

*cautiously steps back*

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's the same basic arguement that you can't say "People shouldn't fat shame, yay for Dove's 'Real Women Have Curves!' campaign!" while simultanously "Thin-Shame" people (some people are naturally fat, some people are naturally thin; women are women regardless of curves or boobs or uterus etc).

So I think they have a point - if you want people to accept your online friendships, enjoyment of writing fanfic, etc, then you should also accept that other people prefer tactile friendships, and going out drinking.

To put it another way: I'm also a member of a knitting community (which is very much a fandom) and a lot of people make snide jokes about non-knitters, a lot of it about what do while watching TV and a lot of annoyed comments about how people point out that they could just buy a hat for less money. But it's sort of like fanfic: A lot of knit things are a lot uglier than store bought versions (but some are significantly nicer; just like a lot of fic is crap, but there's some gems out there), and it's a nice way to make something creative, and there's a social aspect that some people like but wouldn't be for everyone (meet ups vs online groups).

[(Anonymous)]

oh, I agree, not-logged-in childings?

moderation/balance is important, people need to interact irl to grow, etc. and there should be no shame in, say, having a drink with some friends, or going clubbing, or just chilling outdoors

but I was a bit taken aback by the, ah, passion? of your comment

[childings.livejournal.com]

I didn't write that, but I basically agree (I wouldn't have used the fatphobia thing as an analogy though because that's another can of worms altogether)

[(Anonymous)]

yes, thank you. all of this.

i'm an introvert. i consider fandom to be real life. i don't go out a whole lot because it tires me out and it's hard to make myself go.

however.

when i do go, i have plenty of fun. i can even be the life of the party if i need to be. and i definitely don't judge anyone who's extroverted and enjoys that type of thing.

if you get annoyed when people make fun of you for being introverted, don't make fun of extroverts. they can't help their personality any more than you can.

[(Anonymous)]

Extroverts CAN help the behavior of treating introverts like they are weird, not socially acceptable, or the need to pressure introverts into partying, being around others 24/7 as it it would "help" the introvert become a more appealing person.

I'm not saying that all extroverts do this, but enough of them do, and we rarely see introverts pressuring others into their lifestyle.

[(Anonymous)]

sorry, i should have been more clear. i didn't mean the behaviour of pressuring people. i meant the behaviour of wanting to be sociable and be around others.

while introverts don't pressure extroverts much, they can be fairly snobby/elitist and mean by putting them down for being "shallow" and "wasting their time on meaningless things" while lifting themselves up as being "above those petty things".

[(Anonymous)]

Frankly, I'm introvert - so much so that going to parties literally leaves me falling asleep on the floor because of how drained I get. When people keep pressuring me to go/declaring me ~weird~ and making 'Omg! You left your cave! Does the light hurt your eyes?' jokes on the rare occasions I do go to a party after I've explained why I don't, yes. I will get pissy and call something like that a 'waste of my time' when it's obvious that the other person isn't going to stop. Why? Because, as a rule, I'm doormat. So doing something like that usually startles them enough to start backing the fuck off - and if they've gotten me to a point of snapping* then they freaking deserve it.

*Just a point, I'm known to put up with near constant verbal abuse for days without snapping, so I'm not flying off the handle at a moments notice when I do this, and I'll have asked several times for them to back off.

[diet_poison]

It's kind of hard to see from this thread and other similar discussions that people understand that not all extroverts do that. They kind of talk like we all do and...we don't

Like anon said, I can't help my personality, just my actions. If I give an introvert shit for being introverted, I would be responsible for that, but I don't like being lumped in with the jerks just because of my personality

[(Anonymous)]

One thing you might be forgetting is that, for a lot of people, the vast majority of extroverts they've met *do* pressure and make comments about how ~weird~ extroverts are. So, when the topic comes up [like here] people tend to be talking in general.

Personally? The number of extroverts who haven't done either is countable on one hand, where as the ones who have take multiple handfuls [and in some cases managed to pressure multiple introverts at a time into going out without wanting to.] So when the topic comes up? Yes, I'm going to be more focused on talking about the ones who do cross boundaries.

Also, complaining about being lumped in is all well and good - but if you're a part of any group it's going to happen. It sucks, sure - but you also can't expect people not to complain about obnoxious behavior that a group - in general - tends to display.

[(Anonymous)]

There's also subtler pressure to take into account. Like if you invite an introvert to a party and they say no, every extrovert I know will ask "are you sure?" and "Really sure? " and "no last regrets?" and if they ask why you don't go, then "because I don't feel like it, it leaves me exhausted" will often get you something along the lines of "why though? don't be like that, it'll be fun! It'll do you good!".

So when you're just not up to dealing with a party you have to lie "I don't feel well"/"I have something else planned". Most people will accept "well, I've had a hard week and I'm tired" but since they don't understand it they'll follow up with "well you should come then, it'll help you relax!".

So yeah, it doesn't have to be straight up making fun. You can't help how you are as an extrovert but how you are is the opposite of how introverts are and they can't help it either.

[(Anonymous)]

...and how exactly is the OP shitting all over them?

[(Anonymous)]

I was wondering the same thing. The wording didn't come off as bad-mouthing people who enjoy partying and what-not. It seemed more like frustration with constantly being ribbed/mocked for not enjoying that type of thing.

[(Anonymous)]

maybe not OP necessarily, but i've seen plenty of fandom people make fun of people who like to go out and party or things like that. usually they mock them for "trying to be cool" or imply it's pathetic that they "need other people". i've also seen them say that those people are shallow or wasting their time by doing something apparently worthless/without a deeper meaning.

[(Anonymous)]

I've definitely seen that, too, but it seems kind of crappy to rant at the OP when their secret didn't come off that way at all. Then again, I know some people just get sick of getting crap over it, just like a lot of introverts get sick of people giving them crap over how they like to spend their time.

[(Anonymous)]

yeah, i think childings should have directed her comment to the general audience and not the OP. however, i can understand her frustration. i'm an introvert, but my fandom friends have made some pretty mean-spirited remarks on the times that i do decide to go out and party. sometimes i kind of want to snap too.

[(Anonymous)]

Um... the secret didn't do that. At no point did the secret "shit all over" people who like to party or have other interests. Where do you see that? They were just complaining about the attitude that there's something wrong with a person who doesn't want to party. You're a little trigger-happy here.

[(Anonymous)]

GEEZ can someone PLEASE make this point without reading too much into a secret that said nothing of the sort JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

[(Anonymous)]

Just an idea - but you do realize that most of the people who say those things aren't saying them IRL, and that most are probably ranting/needing to vent, right?

[diet_poison]

I think childlings' rant was both misdirected (shouldn't have been at OP) and over-vehement, but there is a point buried under the cursing. Just because you need to vent about a particular person or some particular people doesn't make it ok to shit on an entire group of people who just happen to share one personality trait, and it doesn't matter whether than conversation is happening online or irl.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm a shut-in and a loser and happy and proud of it. Fuck off.

[childings.livejournal.com]

Being a shut-in (to the point that you're like, a NEET who never leaves the house, can't even leave to go to work or see friends which is the definition of "shut-in") is not healthy, that's a sign of social anxiety

DA

[(Anonymous)]

...and here's the attitude the OP complained about.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

but childings is right, though