[ SECRET POST #5257 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5257 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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[The Green Knight (2021)]


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10. [WARNING for discussion of child abuse]



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11. [WARNING for mention of rape and genital mutilation]























Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 31 secrets from Secret Submission Post #752.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

10. [WARNING for discussion of child abuse]
https://i.imgur.com/rtRuEfM.png

[(Anonymous)]

If you posted any of that on f!s, I probably argued with you. Glad you're in a better place.

Also wow I can't believe this movie is more than 10 years old omg

[(Anonymous)]

Not OP but - argue over what, anon?

[(Anonymous)]

DA - Probably over the OP's original belief that Gothel loved Rapunzel? And to AYRT, around the time of Tangled's release lotssssss of people posted that on FS. It was just emotional abuse discourse all day every day.

[(Anonymous)]

Thread OP here, yep that's it exactly.

[(Anonymous)]

This movie was one of my favorites as well. And I used to go watch it randomly in the theater while it was still airing - I remember going there one afternoon after my uni class; there was only me and a couple of moms with crying kids. I mean, obviously she was wrong and a villainish character but in retrospect I hate how it gives a reason for people to... bash poorly-treated children because that's what people do, at the end of the day. They see a parent who may or may not be doing their best but are failing miserably at parenting and they go "oh poor children, go to therapy forever!" (haha yes guys I heard this myself). And it's assholey, and shitty, and I wish things weren't like this. At the end of the day I liked Tangled for what it is - sure she could be said to have a shitty life by some standards, but she'd clean her room and paint and sing (and honestly her life wasn't even that bad) and things eventually got better, and her life was shown in the movie to be much bigger than just her relationship with her abusive mother even if that's all some people will talk about. Maybe it's the bittersweet perspective what made me love it lots in retrospect.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what you are trying to say about shitty parents and therapy. Even well-meaning parents fuck up, that's only natural. People are human. And the developmental years are often where the most damage is done, so yes, a child can benefit from therapy regardless of how much their parent tried. Unfortunately, a lot of mistreated children don't realize the damage done to them until they're well into adulthood. I don't know about "therapy forever" but they may be going for a while, and there's no shame in that.

(and honestly her life wasn't even that bad)

You're joking, right?

[(Anonymous)]

I AM saying that some privileged folks are horrible to the point of recommending someone who didn't have an astounding upbringing, often for finantial reasons even, things as if they knew what it's like and expect those people to go to (paid) therapy for the rest of their lives because "*gasp* How did you manage?! I'd never!" But it IS just reality for some of us, perhaps most of us. In other words, privileged folks should acknowledge their privileges is all I am saying and have been fighting for. I am saying that the worldview of people who have been hurt ir abused in varying degrees are NOT any less valid or more flawed or less deserving of being recognized as part of the world by default see.

I am not going on an anti-therapy speech here (as a therapist I have a lot to say on the matter but this isn't the place) as much as I know some people - sometimes even pros - basis their ideas of others on some 20th century theories (looking at you Melanie Klein ...) instead of trying to understand, listening and treating others with kindness in the present because this is much harder than judging and condemning.

No? Damn I wish all my worries could be summed up in being gaslit by an otherwise caring mother (let's face it: she wasn't being held captive in a 2x2 basement), being bored because I can't go outside and then finding magical dude at 18 and living happily as a princess for the rest of my life. Don't we all?

[(Anonymous)]

SA - In other words: no, despite what society (which is made of a few privileged folks who dictate what we should think and a huge amount of people trying to be one of em) may lead you to believe, you are not obliged to hate or resent your parents only because they couldn't (mentally or socially or finantially or whatever) give you a textbook upbringing, and you don't have to feel like suffering and therapy is your destined chore either is my point. You are the only person who will be with yourself until the day you die so don't assume that your discomfort or unhappiness to adapt to others' delusions is the only way out or the only right way. You should do what makes you ultimately happy be it therapy or just acknowledging and moving on because you're a free adult.

[(Anonymous)]

SHE. DIDN'T. CARE. ABOUT. RAPUNZEL. SHE CARED ABOUT THE FUCKING HAIR, WHICH IS WHY ALL HER AFFECTION IS SHOWN AT THE HAIR. RAPUNZEL WAS ISOLATED BECAUSE GOTHEL DIDN'T WANT ANYONE A. FINDING THE KIDNAPPED PRINCESS AND B. HAVING TO SHARE OR OTHERWISE LOSE HER FUCKING FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH AND BEAUTY.

Note how she acts when Rapunzel is happy in the outside world, with Flynn. She berates her, trashes her choices, and schemes to have her assaulted to drive her back to the fucking tower. I wish I knew who you were so I could report this, because this is alarming that you look at an overt abuser with 0 care towards the happiness of her kid, even in fiction, and go, "Yeah she cares and isn't that bad!"

[(Anonymous)]

For someone who preaches about understanding and kindness, you are shit at empathy. When you miss out on eighteen years of your life because somebody is using and abusing you, and you don't know any better, YES IT IS THAT BAD.

Seriously. Cut the "it wasn't that bad" bullshit. It's offensive, it's insulting, it's dismissive, and it's why abused people stay where they are for way too long. They don't feel supported, and often feel like they are the problem in their own abusive situation. I really hope you do not say this to people, because if you do, you are contributing to the problem.

If this were real life, I'd be shocked if Rapunzel turned out half as sane or kind, with few lasting effects of the abuse. If things didn't seem so bad to you, it's because Disney loves sugarcoating even the worst shit and wrapping it up in a bow, accompanied by music.

If you are a troll, good job. You've successfully pissed me off and thoroughly disgusted me.

[(Anonymous)]

Bruh she had Rapunzel literally in chains to force her along with her at one point

[(Anonymous)]

I think both can be true, fwiw. If Rapunzel had happened to be the type to never go against Gothel's interests and been a docile pet bunny, it's possible they'd have had a nice and comfy life. Abusers aren't monsters that never love anyone. It's that they never care about anyone more than themselves or their own interests. If abusers were monsters incapable of love it'd be a lot easier to deal with

[(Anonymous)]

Someone can love you and still be abusive, but if that’s what you’re looking for in your Rapunzel witch, try Sondheim. Goethel was always a bad example of that. Her cycles of abuse and affection were far too calculated.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not arguing that Gothel loved Rapunzel as an equal or a child, hence the pet bunny comparison. *If* any love existed there, which again I didn't claim there was, it'd be an unequal one like toward a pet animal. I'm saying this is why people get confused about it, because they - especially kids - aren't used to seeing abusers depicted like that in fiction

[(Anonymous)]

I'd say that monsters can be capable of love, and that abusers are monsters regardless. Especially child abusers.

[(Anonymous)]

Sure, exactly. What I said was "abusers aren't monsters-that-never-love-anyone." Monsters can love and still be monsters, and that confuses people, especially children like OP, a lot. Because they think it has to be one or the other.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay it was how you worded it that confused me lol

[(Anonymous)]

"If Rapunzel had never made Gothel upset/annoyed, they would have been fine"

Are you serious?

[(Anonymous)]

LOL that's how you read that? Wow! Talk about reading things the worst way!

No, to your question, that's obviously not what that meant. The actual point which you missed was that abusers value themselves and their interests above anyone and anything else. If Rapunzel had coincidentally, magically aligned entirely with Gothel's interests, Gothel is the type that could have enjoyed having Rapunzel as a *pet*, hence the animal comparison. And that sort of feeling is what makes people think, did Gothel love Rapunzel? and thinking there was some kind of equal as humans love there. There wasn't.

Don't be intentionally obtuse, anon

[(Anonymous)]

Your definition of nice and comfy life requires that Rapunzel be held hostage, even down to her own wants and needs, so I'm not sure how that works. And I seriously doubt Gothel will chill out once Rapunzel does everything Gothel wants. People like Gothel will always find something to take issue with, because they are incapable of being happy or satisfied with their lives as is. (Unless you mean Rapunzel being showered in luxury but inwardly miserable and unfulfilled while Gothel does what she wants, then sure, I guess.)

On that second point, I'd say if you mainly abuse and don't change, that you aren't capable of love. Abuse is not love. Abusive people can show affection, give gifts, have sex, etc. The "nice" parts don't cancel out the abuse, because the abuse will inevitably start up again. Yes, sometimes regular people do abusive things, even if they don't realize it, but if they're capable of love, they will realize the thing they're doing is abusive and make an effort to stop doing it.

[(Anonymous)]

This whole thread just continues to prove that discussion about whether Gothel loved Rapunzel can really bring out the worst in people. Or otherwise just bring out people who're the worst.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree, except perhaps from a whole different side than you.

I love (/s) how easy it is for privileged people to guilt-trip poor parents who literally could only give their children a less-than-ideal upbringing as if it's their fault or the child's. Oh yeah this is how this world runs

[(Anonymous)]

Oh shut up, you privileged asswipe. I'm poor. My problem with my grandfather is he wasn't when he raised me, but he left me alone all the time so he could drink and made me take care of a huge house on my own at 12. I had to cook and clean and take care of him. My mother was poor, and Lord knows she tried. We don't get along, but she tried. She wasn't abusive.

But you come in here, disparaging abuse victims from your lofty, privileged as fuck position, and you can shove it RIGHT UP YOUR GAPING ASSHOLE YOU CALL A MOUTH.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm AYRT, and I was referring to you when I mentioned people who're the worst. And of course you try to hijack any post you can get your hands on to make things all about you.