[ SECRET POST #2384 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2384 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.


__________________________________________________













Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 086 secrets from Secret Submission Post #341.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

05. http://i44.tinypic.com/9sgyuw.jpg

[dreemyweird]

I don't think this argument is valid, but yours is no better; if somebody, for example, has for their entire life grown carrots in pretty complex patterns, they cannot possibly claim that, since they do it this way, it is not unrealistic to include a character who does the same in a piece of fiction. Also, the fact that everyone else acts differently doesn't make their actions wrong in any way.

It is my opinion, however, that being "realistic" is not a must for a writer. Rather, it is one of those pseudo-rules set to make the beginners stop writing in an outright godawful way.

[(Anonymous)]

The thing about top/bottom in fic, though, is that it's rarely just a matter of who's putting their penis where. If the pairing is A/B and tagged as bottom!B (the tagging is important, I think, in this argument) then it's almost a guarantee that B is written as more emotional, more woobie, more beautiful, more passive, or something along those lines. The people in fandom who use top and bottom are the ones who mean it exactly as who is the "man" and "woman" in the relationship.

Complaining about too much bottom!B is basically just people saying they're sick of B being written as an overemotional woobie.

[(Anonymous)]

This is hard. I'm basically out of fandom now and prefer origial gay romance to any slash. I prefer when authors focus on something other than who penetrates who, because it can start to seem stereotypical. Not looking down on your or anyone else, and I generally keep my opinions quiet, but, yeah, it can be annoying when it seems like the tropes of "big, tough guy always penetrates," and "smaller guy always gets penetrated," are used too often. I actually like a lot of stories like that, but I'm a bit ashamed of it; I want to feel liek the characters are equal at all times, and some of the things that get written with the penetration (like BSDM themes) are problematic for me. Sorry. :/

[(Anonymous)]

yes, you are taking it too personally.

Very often when a fandom pretty much exclusively writers character X as a bottom, it is not because said character has gone on record saying they just really like to take it up the ass or something. It is because the fandom uses ridiculous and often offensive 'reasons' for this being a fact. Like oh, character X has to bottom cause he is the shortest/youngest/most feminine/blond/etc etc Or character Y cannot be a bottom cause they are tall/manly/older/what the fuck ever. It is really fucking frustrating when a fandom as a whole thinks it can decide a character fits a particular sexual role on the basis of looks often.

[applesock]

In fanfic/fiction/whatever, I don't mind if people have top/bottom preferences. What I do mind is when people equate bottom=must be sub and/or passive. Some people do like to be more passive in sex, fine, whatever. But that also doesn't mean they're a 'bottom' either. I don't like the rigid roles, basically.

[(Anonymous)]

There's obviously nothing wrong with anyone's RL preferences in the matter, but as the anons above pointed out, IN FIC assigning exclusive positions usually means some pretty cliché stereotyping that I personally find really offensive. So I just backspace out of fics a lot. But going back to your secret: try not to take it personally - fic and RL are pretty different in this matter.

[erinptah]

IME those kinds of complaints come up mostly when the situation is "Character X must always bottom because he's shorter" or "Character X must always bottom because he's The Girlier One" or some other shaky line of logic.

(ETA: heh, I take my time finishing this comment and in the meantime about 10 people have said this already. The second point still stands, though.)

And if it's just about the characters' personal preferences, I'd still like to see it come up in conversation sometimes. Especially in longer fics. Unless they're telepaths or soulbonded or something, at some point one of them should think to ask, "Hey, is this position always working for you? It's my favorite, but we can still switch it up sometimes if you want."

[(Anonymous)]

I have nothing against characters who don't switch, except I have a really hard time finding a fic where the character who's the exclusive bottom isn't given a whole new personality to fit the fandom stereotype of how a bottom acts. They're often barely recognizable. Also, the exclusive bottom based on looks thing is really predominant.

(Disclaimer: RL sex has nothing to do with this comment)

maybe you just worded it wrong, but

[(Anonymous)]

It bothers me that you think penetrated/bottom = passive.

[queerwolf]

Try not to take it personally. It's all based on annoying stereotypes that a lot of fic writers perpetuate. It has nothing to do with real-life sex.

I personally like equality in my relationships and therefore sex. There doesn't have to be a "passive" person and a "dominant" one. And I like to read about the same equality in my fic.

[(Anonymous)]

I got so fed up with anime and manga related pairings, because it only took one glance at characters -- not having to know anything about their personalities -- to know exactly how they'd be written.

And the rapey stuff. OMG! For some reason, anytime I tried to check out yaoi or BL stuff, so much of it was rapey. It just made me sick.

I got pretty fed up when I saw some of the same things in other fandoms that weren't related to anime and the stereotypes there.

Now, I like original because the author can convince me of whatever they want without violating the characters I've already met through watching TV shows, etc.

But I still don't like heavily looks-based pairings (even though I'll read it sometimes).

sort of related...

[(Anonymous)]

You know what bugs me? This whole passive bottom bullshit. Where are all my bossy bottoms? Where's all the riding fic? Because dude, just because I love to get penetrated does not make me "subby" or "passive" or whatever else.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, I'm just sick of never seeing anything else written unless it's specific kink D/s fic or the like - and even then it's rare.

[(Anonymous)]

THANK YOU OP.

I know that some people dislike some of the dynamics that occur when it comes to X character bottoming and Y character topping, but that usually comes down to shitty seme/uke tropes in fanfiction.

But what I hate is exactly what you're describing here. People who insist that every couple is a switch couple and that it's abnormal to have someone prefer to be on bottom/on top all of the time.

They're called preferences, people. What you might deem as being more 'realistic' isn't always as realistic as you think. There's a reason why in the gay community people often label themselves as either top, bottom or versatile. Not everyone is going to be a versatile and that's just how it is. It has nothing to do with equality or anything like that, it just all comes down to personal preference.

[insanenoodlyguy]

I get where you are coming from, but at the same time, most of the time when I've seen this argument it's been based more on lust (I want to see y fuck x cause that's hotter to me then x fucking y) rather then considerations of "real" sex practices.

[les_lenne]

Oh, secret!OP, I have this nagging feeling that you don't even know what you're talking about here. But others have tried to explain this already, so I won't try. Not after having Caipirinha and Wodka.

But, just a quick survey: I'm actually more bothered by every top being presented like a rapist (at the very least a potential rapist) than woobiefication. That just reeks of "this character is hot but I don't like him so he's gonna rape my fav because I find it hot when my fav is fucked until he bleeds and cries kyaaah." If you're honest about that, no probs, ykinmk and all that, but most people claim their, eh, "characterization" is canon.

[(Anonymous)]

I only hate it when one character always bottems when that mean they get written ooc

[lynx]

Give me good characterization and I won't mind if the roles in a ship are rigid or versatile. As long as it fits the characters I'm completely fine.

I have the hugest kink for subby bottoms, goddammit. I love it when they are desperate for cock and want to be dommed and thoroughly fucked. And it makes me so damn mad that 95% of the time, reading a fic with a character made a subby bottom means the original characterization WILL get thrown out the highest possible window. I like my porn shameless, but IC 8(

[forgottenjester]

So people have said a lot here but there is one thing I haven't seen anyone talk about yet so I'll say it.

There is a shit ton of fic and sorry but I like some variety. There's a reason why I read a lot of different kinds of fic. If I read only, say, Coffee Shop AUs I would get bored very quickly because they read very similarly to me. I can read a Coffee Shop AU and I can like them but I think I can only appreciate them because they are not exclusively what I read. (In fact, they're a very small portion.) I think it's similar for people to read sex scenes in fic; they just don't want to read the same sex scene over and over. It gets boring.

So it has absolutely nothing to do with you and your preferences in the literal bedroom. It has everything to do with other people and their preferences in their storytelling.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't get why top/bottom or dominant/submissive or anything of the sort is even interesting enough to talk about as much as people do, let alone have strong opinions or take offense to.

[(Anonymous)]

This always makes me really nervous about the fic I'm working on. Because it ends with a role reversal, but there's a whole lot of bottoming and blow-job giving from one guy at the start (and middle). Does it help if sometimes the bottom is the instigator? Not Dommy aggressive, but he's clearly the one who go things going?

Rant!

[(Anonymous)]

Rant: Why do so many in fandom conflate top/bottom as penetrator/penetrated with dominant/submissive AAAARGH. Can't they see it says something really terrible (and soooo traditional and sexist) about penis-in-vagina male/female sex and basically men and women? Sure, sometimes it is, but it's the compulsory penetrator=dominant gender myth that bothers me. Stereotypes about gay men carry over from this.

Also, re penetration, ever heard of it being called enclosure? As a thought experiment, try to reframe putting your cock/hand/whatever inside someone else as an act of ~trust and vulnerability~.

[transcriptanon]

[Picture is a female connector and a male connector at the end of red cables?]

I think the trendy "WHY DOES X CHARACTER ALWAYS BOTTOM" argument is annoying at best and offensive at worst.
Annoying because: Who gives a shit. If you can't find fic with your preferred passive/active arrangement then WRITE SOME YOURSELF. Or get on a kink meme and request it. Or start a community.
Offensive because: I'm usually the passive/penetrated partner when I have sex. I like it that way. Therefore, people start jabbering about how SWITCHING IS MORE REALISTIC and preferring a passive role in sex is SO HETERONORMATIVE then I start feeling like I'm Doing It Wrong and debasing others because I'm subby.

Secret because: I'm taking this waaaay too personally.

[(Anonymous)]

The difference is that often when people complain a character always bottoms they're talking about a fandom trend - not a character's preference in one fic.

So, like, they aren't complaining that a specific person always wanting to bottom is unrealistic, they complaining that *everyone* keeps interpreting a character as bottoming during sex - often for very offensive reasons (height, "feminine traits", ect.)

[(Anonymous)]

All I know is, I'm a big ol' "Power Bottom",and... as Hedonismbot would say... "I apologize for nothing!" I feel you OP. lol