[ SECRET POST #2708 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2708 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Degrassi Junior High/Degrassi High and Saved By The Bell]


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03.
[The Cinema Snob]

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04.
[Phil Robertson from Duck Dynasty]


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05.
[Silicon Valley]


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06.
[Xavier Dolan]


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07.
[Pacific Rim]


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08.
[Sailor Moon]


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09.
[Iwan Rheon]


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10.
[Love Stage!!]


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11.
[The Losers (movie)]


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12.
[K-pop]










Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 052 secrets from Secret Submission Post #387.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Do you choose to be attracted to the gender/people you are attracted to?

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Yes, that's part of having free will.

[diet_poison]

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I'll be blunt: that's ridiculous.

It basically undermines the entire definition of sexual attraction.

I certainly did not choose. I'm a straight gal, and when I was a kid I was going through this huge tomboy phase where I was adamant that boys were icky (well, they were fun to play on the jungle gym with, but the idea of a boyfriend?? ew) and I'd never kiss one or marry one or go out with one, ever. Then hormones won. So yeah, I didn't choose - it happened to me.

I've only ever seen one other person make this claim and it was really weird. They couldn't really follow through with it when pressed. Honestly, could you choose to be inherently attracted to the same gender if you tried to? If someone said "go be gay for a month" and God said "it's not a sin, I give you leave for one month to be gay, now go date someone of the same gender" could you choose to have the same level of attraction to them that you have for the opposite gender now? (this is assuming you're not gray-ace or something)

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

It basically undermines the entire definition of sexual attraction.

The definition of which I happen to personally disagree with, on religious grounds. Not that I would judge anyone else for hewing to/believing in that definition; that's not for me to judge, ultimately.

I assure you I went through puberty and had the hormones hit as well, although due to underlying congenital issues I was more concerned with trying not to be consistently horribly ill and/or bedridden, to see if there was any "there" there with wanting to jump everything of the opposite gender in sight. (I also think this is an incorrect assumption/belief of how sexuality works, but it's reinforced culturally by the media kids consume, music videos, movies, like that.)

Honestly, could you choose to be inherently attracted to the same gender if you tried to? If someone said "go be gay for a month" and God said "it's not a sin, I give you leave for one month to be gay, now go date someone of the same gender" could you choose to have the same level of attraction to them that you have for the opposite gender now?

Fair warning. You are not going to like my answer.

I think people DO make that choice, in part because they buy into the "hormones override all rational thought" theory (which is, to put it politely, bogus), and with the cultural conditioning of "anything goes" these days, they follow up on whatever odd/stray thought may wander into their heads.

(This is the part you won't like.) Said odd/stray thoughts which come from a rather more unpalatable place/mentality than just hormones, in my personal opinion.

That's a general answer to your question. I will give you a personal answer, just to follow this thought experiment through: The first thing I immediately thought of, when you suggested the "God said "it's not a sin, I give you leave for one month" bit was what happened with Ezekiel. (Ezek. 4:9-15)

But that ties back into my belief that God gives all humans free will (regardless if we're all aware of that or not). So, if God said that to me, I'd argue with Him over it! Worked for old Zeke, anyway....

[(Anonymous)]

How would you say that sexuality works?

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Definitely not the way it's portrayed in popular culture. You likely would not be happy with my answer as to how it works, so I will just leave the discussion at that, and we can agree to disagree.

[(Anonymous)]

You know I never realized before, but you're the third person who has said homosexuality is a choice but actually does have homosexual urges they choose not to act on.

I suppose to a bisexual, homosexuality might seem like an optional thing.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

you're the third person who has said homosexuality is a choice but actually does have homosexual urges they choose not to act on

...and you know this because how? I assure you I am heterosexual. And actually haven't ever had "homosexual urges" or even any stray/odd thoughts in that direction. But kudos to you, for trying to troll me and get an irate response. It didn't work, I'm sorry to say. Your statement above is just as ridiculous as everyone in this thread is saying my beliefs are.

[duaedesigns]

So what you're saying, is you could choose to be attracted to one of your parents just, boom, snap your fingers and OHGODIWANNAFUCKMYDADSOBAD and be crazy in lust with him for a week, and then turn it off again?

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

First of all, the lot of you busting out these extreme examples just proves you really don't have an argument to stand on, and secondly, I have many many times seen espoused here on FS that "if it's only fantasy, it's OK!!" so I would turn that question back to YOU and say, if YOU were to choose to fantasize about that (which, ew on several levels, but let's say hypothetically), would you then use the argument "it's only fantasy so it's OK!!"? Why or why not?

...but I'm the one being accused of being ridiculous. Right.

[diet_poison]

The definition of which I happen to personally disagree with, on religious grounds.

ok but "sexual attraction" actually has a scientific definition so that's not really up for debate. If you don't really mean "sexual attraction" but rather something else, you should clarify what it is that you mean.

with wanting to jump everything of the opposite gender in sight. (I also think this is an incorrect assumption/belief of how sexuality works, but it's reinforced culturally by the media kids consume, music videos, movies, like that.)

If you think that's what I meant when I said "hormones won", you're reading an awful lot into my comment that wasn't there. It simply means I was unable to control who I found attractive - who my mind, heart, and body responded to on a fundamental level. I was and am 100% capable of controlling how I chose to respond to that. And I have never behaved in that way nor do I think humans are doomed to be slaves to sexual urges or some bullshit, in fact I'm quite a proponent of the opposite view, that we're all quite capable of controlling ourselves.

I think people DO make that choice, in part because they buy into the "hormones override all rational thought" theory (which is, to put it politely, bogus), and with the cultural conditioning of "anything goes" these days, they follow up on whatever odd/stray thought may wander into their heads.

As clarified above, I don't buy into that theory either, and besides which it's not the point. The choice you seem to be talking about is the choice to act, not the choice to experience attraction.

The reference to Ezekiel is also beside the point. I'm not saying if God told you to do something because what He really wanted was for you to argue about it, but if He told you to do something and He meant it. In theory, what would you do?

[(Anonymous)]

If you think that's what I meant when I said "hormones won", you're reading an awful lot into my comment that wasn't there.

Sorry, not your comment, but I have heard/seen this attitude/belief from others "in the wild" as it were.

It simply means I was unable to control who I found attractive - who my mind, heart, and body responded to on a fundamental level.

OK, that's fair, I certainly will not discount your experiences, and I'm not saying you need to be different. There are a lot of reasons (physical being pretty much the lowest rung of the ladder) that a relationship with someone (of the opposite sex -- before I get another anon coming in and saying "then you must have homosexual urges!!" again) is definitely off the table for me, for the foreseeable future. (Whether that will change, I don't know.)

So part of it is rational, "This won't help my situation at all right now," but the rational part of that overrides the attraction part at the fundamental level you mention, i.e., because that's not what I'm looking for, not what I need, nor even really want, right now, so that's not what occurs to me at all when I interact with the opposite sex.

The choice you seem to be talking about is the choice to act, not the choice to experience attraction.

I'm not talking about the choice to act. There is no choice to act on something that's not there. Which, at this point in my life, is not there by my choice. I.e., I am not looking for a relationship right now, which is my choice, and this choice informs my choice that I not size up members of the opposite sex as potential relationship material, so I approach them from a neutral standpoint. Which is not often the case, generally speaking.

The reference to Ezekiel is also beside the point. I'm not saying if God told you to do something because what He really wanted was for you to argue about it, but if He told you to do something and He meant it. In theory, what would you do?

In theory, I refer you back to the reference to Ezekiel. The God I believe in and trust in would allow, maybe even expect, me to argue about it. So, the reference is really not beside the point, as it illustrates my perspective.

And that's it for me. I need to get a couple hours sleep. Sorry if anything I said was offensive.

[beverlykatz]

This... is baffling. I don't mean to be rude, although I recognize that there's not really a good way to say this, but it seems like you have some pretty major issues with sexuality.

(Not touching the "unpalatable" issue, but I agree with everyone upthread saying that homosexual thoughts are not wrong or against God.)

Also, you're assuming that hormones are by nature irrational, which isn't true. They're just hormones. They don't run your life, but you also don't run them. I can't MAKE myself attracted to men exclusively; the absolute closest I could get to not being bisexual is to stop acting on my attraction to women (which will never happen because fuck yeah women are great), and that's not actually changing my underlying feelings. To be honest I'm not sure why I'm engaging, though, because you seem very convinced and I don't think anything I say will change your mind.

[(Anonymous)]

Wow, you are actually, seriously rejecting reality and replacing it with your own beliefs. That is... that is just... special. You seriously have no evidence for any of this, you're just going "No, all this research and science is wrong, because that's not what I believe."

Seriously, people who think like you make you are the enemy of progress in society.

[(Anonymous)]

So what day did you sit down and decide which gender you would date? It's a big decision. I'd imagine you put some thought into it.

[sarillia]

Okay even in my teenage fundie days I didn't believe this. I did the whole "okay, the attraction isn't a choice, but you can choose to act on it or not" thing.

[(Anonymous)]

Attraction IS a choice; you can choose to think about being attracted to (whoever you're attracted to) if you are actively looking for a partner, or you can choose not to think like that, so it's not even a thought that occurs. If that makes sense.

Popular media has built this entire mythos up around "love at first sight" and "instant attraction" "struck by a lightning bolt" etc. but that again reduces people down to being completely at the mercy of biology, and not being able to engage in rational thought, i.e., "attraction" trumps all.

[sarillia]

Acknowledging that people feel attraction whether they want to or not is not incompatible with acknowledging that people can think for themselves. I spent a long time being in denial about liking girls. I was still attracted to them even while I was trying to ignore it. I did nothing about it, I tried to avoid thinking about it, but the attraction was still there.

[(Anonymous)]

"you can choose to think about being attracted to (whoever you're attracted to)..."

Even in your own description the person is choosing to do the thinking, not choosing the attraction. You have to know you're completely full of shit, right?

Think of it like tasting new food: when it hits your tongue, you don't choose whether it tastes good: your brain tells you this. Now, you can choose to keep eating it, and maybe eventually you'll find you can like or tolerate it, but some things will never, ever taste good for you.

What kind of arrogance does it take to tell people what goes on in their own heads? How can you discount observable reality in favor of what an old book says? I don't even know how to deal with people who say things like this....

[(Anonymous)]

You sound very young and unacquainted with the world. All your 'knowledge' about how things work is the product of poor reasoning more than actual experience.

[kallanda_lee]

Honestly, with my current bf it was sort of like that. We wanted to postpone it, because I had just come out of another relationship, but I would definitely describe it as force of nature. We were friends before, but once I saw him in that light...it was pretty much like you see in popular media. I remember eating and sleeping very little for like 6 months.

And it was glorious. Exhausting, but glorious, and utterly unstoppable. I wouldn't trade the experience for the world.

Not all falling in love is like that, of course. There are people who fall in love in less overwhelming ways. But, the mythos exists because the experience exists, and many aspire it - because often we only have a limited chance to actually have it happen in out life.

[kallanda_lee]

What, I find this truly bizarre.

I have never, ever "chosen" who I was attracted to. I have chosen not to initiate a relationship (that is different) but I've never chosen attraction to someone.

I'm guessing it's pretty common as people end up attracted to and staying with people who are bad for them.

I just don't understand ho you can argue that attraction/love is a choice.

Yes, you could technically choose to be celibate - but that does not take the attraction away.

[(Anonymous)]

A question... Have you, once being attracted to someone, maintained that attraction for always or do you ever decide that you are not attracted to someone? For example, an initial attraction to a married person can be set aside by choice, right, when you find out? or are you doomed to be attracted to someone you don't want?

[(Anonymous)]

Usually you don't stop finding them attractive simply because you discover that they're unavailable. You might move them into the mental category of "not a potential sexual partner" and never attempt to initiate a relationship, but it's unlikely that seeing a wedding ring will make them stop looking hot to you.

[kallanda_lee]

Hm, tough question. It certainly does fade, and I can choose not to act on it, I guess - but it never goes away entirely. Like, an echo of it remains, as far as I tell. I know I met someone who I chose not to romantically engage with in highschool years later - and my heart still skipped a beat. I sort of felt awkward in the schoolgirl crush way again.

That doesn't just go on a superficial level, it's even worse if there actually was a connection. I'm sort of strange like that can't entirely un-love what I loved.