[ SECRET POST #2708 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2708 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Degrassi Junior High/Degrassi High and Saved By The Bell]


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03.
[The Cinema Snob]

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04.
[Phil Robertson from Duck Dynasty]


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05.
[Silicon Valley]


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06.
[Xavier Dolan]


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07.
[Pacific Rim]


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08.
[Sailor Moon]


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09.
[Iwan Rheon]


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10.
[Love Stage!!]


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11.
[The Losers (movie)]


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12.
[K-pop]










Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 052 secrets from Secret Submission Post #387.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

DA

This is correct, and I think the Duck Dynasty guy is an abomination for entirely separate reasons...but I also believe (as a Christian who believes the division between "angry OT god" and "happy hippy blue-eyed Jebus" is blasphemy) that it is 100% a lifestyle CHOICE for people (thus why I say this anon and spare me the vitriol, the Book backs me on this) so maybe it isn't as clear-cut and black and white as both atheists and fundies make it out to be.

TL;DR: Another religion thread! I've got Reese's Pieces, who made the popcorn?

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not going to jump on you, but why do you think it's a choice? And how do you deal with all the slash and BDSM (which I figure you might also consider sinful?) in fandom?

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Thanks for not jumping me, first of all. Secondly, I believe, which is a vast departure from, like 99% of Christians you may encounter on the street, that all humans are given free will by God (I also believe in Intelligent Design, just as a heads-up) and that our consciousness/intellect that sets us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom also allows us to use reason to be able to understand ourselves and our actions, and not to be mindlessly driven by blind instinct or "biological urges" that are supposedly uncontrollable/inevitable (I disagree with that, but the bulk of atheists think like this, because they do see humanity as little more than intelligent but still instinct-driven creatures, which is incorrect).

As to your second question, I don't read slash or BDSM or even any fic, unless it's gen (and rarely then), and I'm not involved in any TV/movie fandoms for the same reasons. I read books. *shrug*

[(Anonymous)]

and not to be mindlessly driven by blind instinct or "biological urges" that are supposedly uncontrollable/inevitable (I disagree with that, but the bulk of atheists think like this, because they do see humanity as little more than intelligent but still instinct-driven creatures, which is incorrect).

Have you ever met an atheist? Because I've met many atheists (in addition to myself), and have never encountered one who believed that humans were helpless slaves to their instincts or "biological urges." This sounds more like something that sprung from the imagination of a Christian who was trying to describe the "atheist worldview" without the benefit of consulting any real-life atheists. You've been lied to. Please do not spread this lie to others.

[(Anonymous)]

Have you ever met an atheist?

Yes, and they have espoused that view, that we are nothing but physical bodies, driven by the instincts of our biology. "Operant conditioning" one of them said, which sounded rather SF-ish to me, then I looked up the Skinner being referred to, and yeah. Suffice to say I was unimpressed.

[(Anonymous)]

There are Christians who hold different views from you, and you would not agree that they were speaking for you. Why do you think the fact that you've met one atheist who espouses that view means that you can generalize to all atheists?

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Hold on here, you're using B. F. Skinner, the leading behaviorist of the 20th as your name-drop for human "instinct," never mind that his theories are significantly out of date?

[(Anonymous)]

"...not to be mindlessly driven by blind instinct or 'biological urges' that are supposedly uncontrollable/inevitable (I disagree with that, but the bulk of atheists think like this, because they do see humanity as little more than intelligent but still instinct-driven creatures, which is incorrect)."

You are very much misrepresenting the atheist PoV, and I'm kind of afraid to know why.

It's not that "urges," as you say, are uncontrollable or inevitable. It's that they inform some of what they do; it's that they are part of our history. Our intelligence allows us to overcome those urges and to do things that are contrary to our instincts, and that's a beautiful and amazing thing.

But very few atheists would suggest that homosexuality is an urge that needs to be overcome, because there is no logical reason for someone to do so. Love is no less beautiful than intelligence.

[(Anonymous)]

It's not that "urges," as you say, are uncontrollable or inevitable.

*deep breath*

I am not saying that. I am saying that that seems to be generally accepted view of most, and if the responses in this thread are any indication, that is the accepted view of most here. I disagree with this. This is what I disagree with. Is that clear?

It's that they inform some of what they do; it's that they are part of our history. Our intelligence allows us to overcome those urges and to do things that are contrary to our instincts.

That's...not quite what I'm saying, but close. I wouldn't label such things as "urges" but stray/odd thoughts, as I replied to diet_poison. I do not believe, as I responded to d_p, that these thoughts/choices are rooted in biology or instinct. If that makes things clear as mud.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I guess the "as you say" made that a poorly worded sentence. I didn't think that you believed that; I was responding to the notion that atheists believe that.

"That's...not quite what I'm saying, but close."

No. It's what many atheists think.

[(Anonymous)]

Do you choose to be attracted to the gender/people you are attracted to?

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Yes, that's part of having free will.

[diet_poison]

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I'll be blunt: that's ridiculous.

It basically undermines the entire definition of sexual attraction.

I certainly did not choose. I'm a straight gal, and when I was a kid I was going through this huge tomboy phase where I was adamant that boys were icky (well, they were fun to play on the jungle gym with, but the idea of a boyfriend?? ew) and I'd never kiss one or marry one or go out with one, ever. Then hormones won. So yeah, I didn't choose - it happened to me.

I've only ever seen one other person make this claim and it was really weird. They couldn't really follow through with it when pressed. Honestly, could you choose to be inherently attracted to the same gender if you tried to? If someone said "go be gay for a month" and God said "it's not a sin, I give you leave for one month to be gay, now go date someone of the same gender" could you choose to have the same level of attraction to them that you have for the opposite gender now? (this is assuming you're not gray-ace or something)

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

It basically undermines the entire definition of sexual attraction.

The definition of which I happen to personally disagree with, on religious grounds. Not that I would judge anyone else for hewing to/believing in that definition; that's not for me to judge, ultimately.

I assure you I went through puberty and had the hormones hit as well, although due to underlying congenital issues I was more concerned with trying not to be consistently horribly ill and/or bedridden, to see if there was any "there" there with wanting to jump everything of the opposite gender in sight. (I also think this is an incorrect assumption/belief of how sexuality works, but it's reinforced culturally by the media kids consume, music videos, movies, like that.)

Honestly, could you choose to be inherently attracted to the same gender if you tried to? If someone said "go be gay for a month" and God said "it's not a sin, I give you leave for one month to be gay, now go date someone of the same gender" could you choose to have the same level of attraction to them that you have for the opposite gender now?

Fair warning. You are not going to like my answer.

I think people DO make that choice, in part because they buy into the "hormones override all rational thought" theory (which is, to put it politely, bogus), and with the cultural conditioning of "anything goes" these days, they follow up on whatever odd/stray thought may wander into their heads.

(This is the part you won't like.) Said odd/stray thoughts which come from a rather more unpalatable place/mentality than just hormones, in my personal opinion.

That's a general answer to your question. I will give you a personal answer, just to follow this thought experiment through: The first thing I immediately thought of, when you suggested the "God said "it's not a sin, I give you leave for one month" bit was what happened with Ezekiel. (Ezek. 4:9-15)

But that ties back into my belief that God gives all humans free will (regardless if we're all aware of that or not). So, if God said that to me, I'd argue with Him over it! Worked for old Zeke, anyway....

[(Anonymous)]

How would you say that sexuality works?

[(Anonymous)]

You know I never realized before, but you're the third person who has said homosexuality is a choice but actually does have homosexual urges they choose not to act on.

I suppose to a bisexual, homosexuality might seem like an optional thing.

[duaedesigns]

So what you're saying, is you could choose to be attracted to one of your parents just, boom, snap your fingers and OHGODIWANNAFUCKMYDADSOBAD and be crazy in lust with him for a week, and then turn it off again?

[diet_poison]

The definition of which I happen to personally disagree with, on religious grounds.

ok but "sexual attraction" actually has a scientific definition so that's not really up for debate. If you don't really mean "sexual attraction" but rather something else, you should clarify what it is that you mean.

with wanting to jump everything of the opposite gender in sight. (I also think this is an incorrect assumption/belief of how sexuality works, but it's reinforced culturally by the media kids consume, music videos, movies, like that.)

If you think that's what I meant when I said "hormones won", you're reading an awful lot into my comment that wasn't there. It simply means I was unable to control who I found attractive - who my mind, heart, and body responded to on a fundamental level. I was and am 100% capable of controlling how I chose to respond to that. And I have never behaved in that way nor do I think humans are doomed to be slaves to sexual urges or some bullshit, in fact I'm quite a proponent of the opposite view, that we're all quite capable of controlling ourselves.

I think people DO make that choice, in part because they buy into the "hormones override all rational thought" theory (which is, to put it politely, bogus), and with the cultural conditioning of "anything goes" these days, they follow up on whatever odd/stray thought may wander into their heads.

As clarified above, I don't buy into that theory either, and besides which it's not the point. The choice you seem to be talking about is the choice to act, not the choice to experience attraction.

The reference to Ezekiel is also beside the point. I'm not saying if God told you to do something because what He really wanted was for you to argue about it, but if He told you to do something and He meant it. In theory, what would you do?

[beverlykatz]

This... is baffling. I don't mean to be rude, although I recognize that there's not really a good way to say this, but it seems like you have some pretty major issues with sexuality.

(Not touching the "unpalatable" issue, but I agree with everyone upthread saying that homosexual thoughts are not wrong or against God.)

Also, you're assuming that hormones are by nature irrational, which isn't true. They're just hormones. They don't run your life, but you also don't run them. I can't MAKE myself attracted to men exclusively; the absolute closest I could get to not being bisexual is to stop acting on my attraction to women (which will never happen because fuck yeah women are great), and that's not actually changing my underlying feelings. To be honest I'm not sure why I'm engaging, though, because you seem very convinced and I don't think anything I say will change your mind.

[(Anonymous)]

So what day did you sit down and decide which gender you would date? It's a big decision. I'd imagine you put some thought into it.

[sarillia]

Okay even in my teenage fundie days I didn't believe this. I did the whole "okay, the attraction isn't a choice, but you can choose to act on it or not" thing.

[(Anonymous)]

Attraction IS a choice; you can choose to think about being attracted to (whoever you're attracted to) if you are actively looking for a partner, or you can choose not to think like that, so it's not even a thought that occurs. If that makes sense.

Popular media has built this entire mythos up around "love at first sight" and "instant attraction" "struck by a lightning bolt" etc. but that again reduces people down to being completely at the mercy of biology, and not being able to engage in rational thought, i.e., "attraction" trumps all.

[kallanda_lee]

What, I find this truly bizarre.

I have never, ever "chosen" who I was attracted to. I have chosen not to initiate a relationship (that is different) but I've never chosen attraction to someone.

I'm guessing it's pretty common as people end up attracted to and staying with people who are bad for them.

I just don't understand ho you can argue that attraction/love is a choice.

Yes, you could technically choose to be celibate - but that does not take the attraction away.

[(Anonymous)]

A question... Have you, once being attracted to someone, maintained that attraction for always or do you ever decide that you are not attracted to someone? For example, an initial attraction to a married person can be set aside by choice, right, when you find out? or are you doomed to be attracted to someone you don't want?

[(Anonymous)]

It's a choice to embrace or deny how you feel about a person, of course it is. It's not a choice to FEEL it.