[ SECRET POST #335 ]

[degrees.livejournal.com]

⌈ Secret Post #335 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

1.


__________________________________________________



2.
__________________________________________________



3.
__________________________________________________



4.
__________________________________________________



5.
__________________________________________________



6.
__________________________________________________



7.
__________________________________________________



8.
__________________________________________________



9.
__________________________________________________



10.
__________________________________________________



11.
__________________________________________________



12.
__________________________________________________



13.
__________________________________________________



14.
__________________________________________________



15.
__________________________________________________



16.
__________________________________________________



17.
__________________________________________________



18.
__________________________________________________



19.
__________________________________________________



20.
__________________________________________________



21.
__________________________________________________



22.
__________________________________________________



23.
__________________________________________________



24.
__________________________________________________



25.
__________________________________________________



26.
__________________________________________________



27.
__________________________________________________



28.
__________________________________________________



29.
__________________________________________________



30.
__________________________________________________



31.
__________________________________________________



32.
__________________________________________________



33.
__________________________________________________



34.
__________________________________________________



35.
__________________________________________________



36.
__________________________________________________



37.
__________________________________________________



38.
__________________________________________________





Notes:

I'm not actually around, Semagic is doing the work for me, so you guys do the name that fandom! :D

Also... the amount of not posted secrets today worries me. Perhaps some of you could do with a refresher on the rules and regulations?

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 47 secrets from Secret Submission Post #048.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 ] broken link, [ 1 2 3 4 ] not!secrets, [ 1 2 ] not!fandom, [ 1 ] WTF?, [ 1 ] Teal Dear Rant Sans Secret But Amusing Enough To Make A Seperate Category For Because Of The Tattoo.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Friday, December 7th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

It does! As I stated in the secret (or meant to) I've only read the manga and seen the anime and then read the few novels that have been translated into English. So my impressions of the characters are solely based off of those observations.

I am curious on Esther, however, since from the impression given in the novel of her terrorist days she's a strong person then. Even with her weakness and being usurped by Dietrich's betrayal in a way she's still not 'weak'. She charged Gyula with a knife.

Mercurial was probably the wrong word choice there, I will admit to that.

Now, I guess, the question I have to ask is why pull these characters from those timeplaces? They are inherently setting up the characters/play for the stagnant RCO ruled form, which is odd. Not only odd but it seems like it severely hampers both character growth and play (I can't actually speak on that, not being a player, but it definitely causes some frowns on wondering just how the players deal with it).

I have no idea how to answer the comments on Radu, honestly. I can't speak for his novel personality at all, but if I had to guess from what you've said and what I've seen of his play... he's a completely dependent, weak individual who is easily wooed by both looks and sex. Which, I guess, is not impossible, though I expected more from seeing him in the manga.

And since you've read the novels, could you confirm or deny what the other anon has said about Caterina in the RCO and then the thing about her 'ungrounding' Dietrich?

[(Anonymous)]

"'ungrounding' Dietrich?"

They meant 'undermining'.

Long reply is long. First part

[sir-hellsing.livejournal.com]

Glad I could be of help. Please, I'm someone who seeks constant improvement and I'd have enjoyed you to critize those I play in the driving threads.

Dietrich's NOT someone easy to play, let me tell you this, it took a month until I was sure of his voice and more to figure out what he'll do in a place he has NO mission. And I have seen him ruined in so many rps, making him some slut, Dietrich's provokative and a tease, but he's not a fandom bycicle. He's so smart, manipulative but often SO... how to say, random? He does things for his cause, his enjoyment and, most importantly, his survival. Critize all you want. Lilith and Kaspar, as there's not SO much canon for them, are far easier to move.

I have no idea how to answer the comments on Radu, honestly. I can't speak for his novel personality at all, but if I had to guess from what you've said and what I've seen of his play... he's a completely dependent, weak individual who is easily wooed by both looks and sex. Which, I guess, is not impossible, though I expected more from seeing him in the manga.

Radu is weak. Actually. That's a trait of his character. He fails to be a proper human being. Most Radus I have seen.... well redeemed him which is just not suit me well, interpretation wise. He can feel doubts and such but he was STILL giddy to kill, he was STILL glad to see Dietrich, etc. Dietrich, novel wise, saved him from being vored by Abel, too. He relies so much more on the Puppet Master and comes off as immature to Dietrich's and Ion's level. Radu's just 18. With a consuming jealousy and desire to prove himself to someone. He's a rebellious teenager. The nightmare of every mother: nazi, drug addict (illegal, Empire wise), gay and hates the mother authority.

The whole Radu attracted to Dietrich is VERY recent. After a couple of curse days past months and was worked with to have a plot point because he's growing rebellious (http://flammenschwert.livejournal.com/22948.html) again. Last time, Dietrich brought him back with fear, intimidating and Stockolm Syndrome. Now he'll use his ability to milk his desire for him (we're in due to speak with Desire mun to help).

I suggest you to look back in his journal and see what he did: not aiding Dietrich when alcohol poisoning or hiding for his wrath. He even told Greed about the Orden and Dietrich's powers which is a NO NO. He got punished badly and faced a mental/emotional judgment that made him CHOSE and made up his mind by the people of Silent Hill: that's exactly why he has been more Orden faithful, because of THIS. He ran away twice. The problem is that he's an Imperial. All Imperials are sort of REALLY dependent with inability to grow. Seth sucks in mothering. They were product of a society of favoritism and cripled mother isues that can't function without their superior/goddess. He WOULD like to be independant (as he showed in the past), but sadly, he just... cannot. Upbringing and all that. Herit should answer this better than I do. She's Radu/Shahrzad/Francesco player and one of the administrators of the TB forum, a walking Encyclopedia of the series and knows her characterization. Really.

I am curious on Esther, however, since from the impression given in the novel of her terrorist days she's a strong person then. Even with her weakness and being usurped by Dietrich's betrayal in a way she's still not 'weak'. She charged Gyula with a knife.

I think the problem is more with inactivity. But she's a strong person, the problem is she's ALSO one who cared for Dietrich a lot and he has been show to be her support in the City. She has been ALONE if wasn't for Dietrich. While the Vatican shunned her. She feels, IMO, betrayed. Kaga should explain you this. Now there's an upcoming development with her meeting with Shahrzad (who pretty much is the whole reason why Esther set on a mission to change the world in ROM IV to honor her sacrifice).

We're all waiting for that and how will impact on Dietrich's plans and spice them >D

Short explanation is short... and probably not perfect since I basically summarized everything. >:

[(Anonymous)]

I know I have been posting sporadically, but that is because I have been so busy with deadlines since it is near the end of the year. I am hoping to fix that on December, but... work has been eating me alive. There is no point in me updating or plotting if I know I will be leaving people hanging. But I will be more active after this faggotry is over. But yes, plot is in plan.

Like what Lore has explained, Esther feels as if she is abandoned. She is taken from ROM I. Why so? It is not because this is helping RCO, it is because when I first took her on, I was nervous and worried about playing her. When I took her, the only AX in the rp was Caterina and Tres. As Caterina was taken from when she resented Esther, she left her alone in a world she has no idea about and gave orders to Tres to do the same. She felt abandoned and hurt and Dietrich was the only person who took her in. She may be betrayed by him, but she doesn't hate him. She wants to know his reasons.

Then Abel came in. He was taken pre-Istvan and he doesn't know her. The only person she thought she knew was an ally... did not know her. Any normal person would be crushed. The only time he and Caterina spoke to her was when they found out that she would be a future Queen, but then, it was already kinda late. One, she thinks that they only wanted to get on her good side because of the fact and two, for a terrorist leader who was brought up by a Bishop, being a Queen is something out of a fairytale - something unbelievable. The Abel was updated later, but the damage was already done.

Then when she thought Francesco was a nice person and wanted to thank him for being nice to her on a curse day, he returned after Alessandro's death in their world... and quite obviously hate the very sight of her. So, no friend there either.

Recently, she has been speaking to Abel again and is slowly warming back up to him. And with Shahrzad's entrance, who knows what would happen? Esther may be staying with Dietrich, but that doesn't mean she trusts him fully. There is still always some doubt.

And again, I am sorry. More to my crew than anyone else about my inactivity.

[sir-hellsing.livejournal.com]

Dur, I love how you play your characters.

Esther's someone who CAN change. That's her greatest trait, IMO. And the circumstances dictate what and how she should change. I thought her reaction was perfectly realistic.

But I want moar. I am waiting the Shahrzad&Esther meeting and Dietrich&Radu explaining her about the Empire. >D

[sir-hellsing.livejournal.com]

Now, I guess, the question I have to ask is why pull these characters from those timeplaces? They are inherently setting up the characters/play for the stagnant RCO ruled form, which is odd. Not only odd but it seems like it severely hampers both character growth and play (I can't actually speak on that, not being a player, but it definitely causes some frowns on wondering just how the players deal with it).

No, we simply chose from where to take the characters. Some people updated them (Francesco's case). Abel was updated too... and restarted. Ion was updated. As did Asta. Lilith HAS her nanos, so she is the strongest of them (but no one really TELLS her of the RCO, she's headdesking at the Vatican and the Empire phail atm and probably WILL AGREE they need to go as countries for the order be restored. >_> Lilith's not an angelic pacifist, she crushed armies, set on deadly weapons and was the best war leader, but it took genocide to have her leave of her healer/doctor role).

It isn't that there's RCO favor is that the RCO IS more powerful individually (they kind of WON in Canon? RCO no Cain. Cain wants destruction. RCO wants to cause a war between Vatican and the Empire, which is a clever political move: destroy old nations together, set their own as more powerful. Most members of the Orden ARE from Germanicus ;P Geeee... I wonder why they are resentful of the Empire and the Vatican) and they have larger cast members. Hell to take down RADU (who is epic phail), you needed Ion/sunlight/Petros/Tres AND Radu choosing to die. And that's just Radu. The immature, childish 18 years old Imperial baby. :/ If you feel is unfair, do apply for Ax/Inquisition or Empire. I WANT moar people on their side. I even complated apply for Petros but I already play THREE TB characters.

And since you've read the novels, could you confirm or deny what the other anon has said about Caterina in the RCO and then the thing about her 'ungrounding' Dietrich?

She starts a mental warfare with Dietrich when he's having paranoia issues against Cain (Dietrich's a person who suffered his own family attempting to MURDER him at 6, so yeah, paranoia ahoy) and his worth to him. So she turns him against Cain but he's still very faithful to the Orden ideals. He just wants Cain's dead and out the picture. Considering Dietrich can control the Arc II where the last fight was supposed to take place (Cain vs Abel), he has serious part to play on good guys's victory (however... we don't know 'cause author DIED on us before finishing the novels. Woe). However, I am playing Dietrich fresh out ROM III when he is still... loyal.

I MAY update this in the future but not now with ongoing plots with him involved. He's already having issues after curse days showed him how would have been if he had loving parents and acceptance of his genius. It's getting him. Rosiel's influence is too impacting him. Rosiel's so much like Cain that makes him have... loyalties issues.

Dietrich follows those he considers his superiors. This isn't out of love or loyalty but admiration and survival >_>

Something else you want to ask? :)

[(Anonymous)]

I have a lot I'd like to say, but I think I need time to organize my thoughts. My only first response though is "...I don't really want to read the novels now."

I thank you for replying, though I can't quite shake the feeling that the entire Trinity Blood cast seems to have been set up in a way. Not that it's necessarily "horriblewrong" but certainly leaves an odd taste in my mouth.

[(Anonymous)]

The earlier English novels at least, edited by a native English-speaker are a crime against grammar, syntax and Google as a means to search for the fecking obvious. I’ve seen better grammatical structure in outdated English textbooks in German high schools.

[sir-hellsing.livejournal.com]

Tokyopop. Herit told me the German ones are really dead on in translation.

I am buying the Spanish ones to make my collection grow. >_> I was going to buy them in English, but after hearing SO many negative reviews and given excerpts. Er. No thanks. People who can't translate ranks correctly isn't worth my money. >.> Asta's not a Duchess.

[(Anonymous)]

That editor has recently left the company so things may show some improvement soon.

[sir-hellsing.livejournal.com]

I heard. Did he translate RAM II? >_> Spain published ROM first then RAM, so we're getting them on the opposite order.

For what I glimpsed it looks more accurate. But... honestly "Rozen Kruez" makes me cringe.

[(Anonymous)]

She. I’m not aware of how much progress was made with RAM II but she was the editor not the translator. The translator’s job is to directly translate from the original language while the editor’s job is to render that into legible English. Somehow that latter part seemingly failed quite spectacularly.

[sir-hellsing.livejournal.com]

Novels are awesome. As you read several (even if Tokyopop butchers titles, ranks, voices -wtf at the loss of speech patters- and names as was informed, it should give you an insight: TB isn't the battle against good vs evil, it's MOSTLY political intrigue. And RCO WAS there before the others, City wise, they have built their power base. When good guys fight in their territory and sometimes neutral ground, they lose. Barcelona and Vienna should be proof of this). Honestly, it isn't hard either. Vatican (as much as I love the Cardinals like Antonio, Caterina and Francesco) and Empire... (no experience in the Outer and diplomacy other than Asta. LOL) uh... as a reader I think their systems suck so much. Germanicus Kingdom and Albion Kingdom after Esther = kick ass.

What would you suggest me to "improve" in your opinion?

[(Anonymous)]

I have so been schooled by my own canon ignorance. I have read two of the Trinity Blood novels, as released by Tokyopop and have done some research finding little pieces of the novel translated by others. Even if it is political intrigue I feel that now I will be disappointed. I was hoping for something that matched my impression from the manga (which was a far more twisted human domain of power and not power and the like). Though from what I've seen (and from what you've said, if the two match with the novels) it seems to be more about the machine and the pieces that work together mechanically/systematically/formulaically than anything.

I have a deep interest in complex humanism or void of, not the political machine. Thank you for your time, at least I won't waste any money buying the rest of the novels now!

(I hope you don't think this is an attack, but a realization of my personal preferences and perhaps why I prefer the manga to the novels. Or why I'm finding myself leaning towards those interpretations.)

[sir-hellsing.livejournal.com]

Even if it is political intrigue I feel that now I will be disappointed. I was hoping for something that matched my impression from the manga (which was a far more twisted human domain of power and not power and the like).

There is that too, but the plot is political. See the war is triggered, but the two strong nations are Albion (led by Esther) and Germanicus (controlled by the Orden). We have NO idea if Germanicus will be defeated in the end by Esther's people. Because the author died... before this happened or was lined up to happen?

Actually, it's quite fitting Germanicus and Albion survive. The Vatican destruction and the Empire blind backslash without their Empress. They are both big on co existence, ironically, Esther takes care of those Ghettos of Methuselah and Germanicus HAS Methuselah and Terran nobles sharing power (as can be seen in the power structure of the Orden). :)

(I hope you don't think this is an attack, but a realization of my personal preferences and perhaps why I prefer the manga to the novels. Or why I'm finding myself leaning towards those interpretations.)

Don't worry. I will suggest you to read the material too. There's big on redeemptions as well: Abel, from crazy mysogist Contra Mundi and war leader who hated humans and slaughtered them (Think Knives from Trigun only with true love who is his opposite: Lilith) to the Abel now.

If I was condescending, please forgive me. I didn't mean to. I tried to explain our choices and why we did this development.

[(Anonymous)]

Perhaps I should clarify my statement. For me, personally, RP should reflect a feeling from the series. And if it is possible for the feeling from the RP to be so definitely in the favor of a polar end then it becomes boring or wrong for me. In the case of this matching with canon then I must concede to disliking parts of/most of the canon itself.

Human struggle, or inhuman struggle, was what I saw in Trinity Blood the manga. Something worth looking at in everyone and an overcoming of single dimensions. Radu is weak, but he also had the strength to break Dietrich's control that one time. Dietrich is twisted, horrible, irredeemable but there's also something worth paying attention there no matter how ugly. Esther (and her nun-ness was up-played and her terrorist downplayed) even though she was the typical female in many ways had a shine to her.

If indeed the RP reflects the novels and (what I feel) all of these characteristics are lost then I have no interest in them.

[sir-hellsing.livejournal.com]

Perhaps I should clarify my statement. For me, personally, RP should reflect a feeling from the series. And if it is possible for the feeling from the RP to be so definitely in the favor of a polar end then it becomes boring or wrong for me. In the case of this matching with canon then I must concede to disliking parts of/most of the canon itself.

As I told before. If there were MORE Ax/Inquisition players, this would change. So far it's RCO centric because ALMOST all the Orden is there. If this displeases you.... er... either apply for someone of your liking.

Dietrich is twisted, horrible, irredeemable but there's also something worth paying attention there no matter how ugly.

Have I not be doing that? Because I'm trying to portray Dietrich with his Luciferean role: outwardly blindingly perfect, the Light Bringer. Inside, he's got Satan's heart who seeks evil. There's also Dietrich's tragic side. He's basically someone born with everything: looks, smarts, wealth, title, and life/socialization turned him into the most evil character ever in his canon. Radu and Esther muns should ask you those, but I'm curious. Because so far you have criticize them but not Dietrich himself. If there's something I should improve with Dietrich (cannot do anything for others), please, by all means, suggest it.

Different McAnon Strikes Again

[(Anonymous)]

Teal deer! But also I'm just going to drop a line here and say that...you're being pretty condescending here? I don't know whether or not the OP has read the novels, but -- they're not widely circulated here nor there, many TB fans don't read Japanese and there's just the fact that not a lot of members of the fandom have the same kind of access to the canon you do. So I'd be a little more delicate about the whole "you're wrong wrong wrong this and this happened and here's (my idea as to) why" thing if I were you -- I won't hold your oh so thorough knowledge of the canon against you, but I wouldn't hold people's lack thereof against them either.

Re: Different McAnon Strikes Again

[sir-hellsing.livejournal.com]

I don't know whether or not the OP has read the novels,

OP has admitted above to have knowledge out Anime and Manga mostly AND to have no pay attention to months of development? I only tried to summarize it, I didn't mean to make it sound condescending. Sorry!

BK Anon here

[(Anonymous)]

:/ This is how things go in multifandom RPs usually. If you don't have a deep idea of the canon, you're usually labeled as a nitpicker for picking on characters you don't even know the canon for.

Re: BK Anon here

[(Anonymous)]

That would pretty much invalidate criticism from anyone who doesn't play from/watch/read the canon, though.

Re: BK Anon here

[(Anonymous)]

But sometimes, isn't it normal to get a gut instinct that so and so character shouldn't be inviting everyone to his/her bed, for example?

Well, that's a very loose example, but not knowing the canon instantly means you really have no say? What if 95% of the RP doesn't know the canon?

Different McAnon

[(Anonymous)]

That's pretty much exactly the point I was trying to make! It's a little unfair to be called out as a "nitpicker" or whatever if you're playing with someone from a canon you don't know much about (or have viewed in a different media, as tends to be the case with a series like Trinity Blood) and something just doesn't seem on, right?

Which brings me back to my original point; the OP thought the cast of that RP were OOC based on their perceptions of a canon they're at least somewhat familiar with. And I don't think that that person's concerns are any less valid for not having access to as much canon as those players have.

BK Anon

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed! That actually got me thinking, and this is not connected to the previous topic at all, if people were automatically called "nitpickers" for not having direct access to the canon etc., then that might giving a free pass to the characters from very obscure fandoms. Not saying that players of characters from obscure fandoms are automatically people who purposely pick obscure characters to avoid negative comments, of course.

RP is serious business...

Old McAnon had a Farm...

[ruxi.livejournal.com]

...slight disagreement based on one particular issue: you can accuse character inconsistency, a lack of character voice or general self-contradiction without knowing the canon. OOCdom, though? Not really, I'd think.

Everyone can pick up on, say, if you have your char support an ideal today, its opposite tomorrow, and the convenient third alternative next week -- all with the same kind of sincere enthusiasm (so you don't even allow that they're hypocritical) This is when anyone with eyes to read can go, "LOL THAT IS INCONSISTENT."

Same, if you're going on the idea that there is no practical character development, you can throw a nice label of, "STAGNATION FTW."

But in the absence of knowledge of the exact canon of characters' provenance? I'd - personally - say that you can't claim OOCdom. There are a lot of other accusations you can bring forward based on actual play development, rather than canon interpretation... but yeah, I wouldn't, myself, say you can claim OOCdom.

Granted, I come from a background of some acquaintance with the players this secret concerned, so I'm not sure whether you'll want to take my argument into account. Nonetheless, putting it forward.