[ SECRET POST #335 ]

[degrees.livejournal.com]

⌈ Secret Post #335 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

I'm not actually around, Semagic is doing the work for me, so you guys do the name that fandom! :D

Also... the amount of not posted secrets today worries me. Perhaps some of you could do with a refresher on the rules and regulations?

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 47 secrets from Secret Submission Post #048.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 ] broken link, [ 1 2 3 4 ] not!secrets, [ 1 2 ] not!fandom, [ 1 ] WTF?, [ 1 ] Teal Dear Rant Sans Secret But Amusing Enough To Make A Seperate Category For Because Of The Tattoo.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Friday, December 7th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[sir-hellsing.livejournal.com]

Now, I guess, the question I have to ask is why pull these characters from those timeplaces? They are inherently setting up the characters/play for the stagnant RCO ruled form, which is odd. Not only odd but it seems like it severely hampers both character growth and play (I can't actually speak on that, not being a player, but it definitely causes some frowns on wondering just how the players deal with it).

No, we simply chose from where to take the characters. Some people updated them (Francesco's case). Abel was updated too... and restarted. Ion was updated. As did Asta. Lilith HAS her nanos, so she is the strongest of them (but no one really TELLS her of the RCO, she's headdesking at the Vatican and the Empire phail atm and probably WILL AGREE they need to go as countries for the order be restored. >_> Lilith's not an angelic pacifist, she crushed armies, set on deadly weapons and was the best war leader, but it took genocide to have her leave of her healer/doctor role).

It isn't that there's RCO favor is that the RCO IS more powerful individually (they kind of WON in Canon? RCO no Cain. Cain wants destruction. RCO wants to cause a war between Vatican and the Empire, which is a clever political move: destroy old nations together, set their own as more powerful. Most members of the Orden ARE from Germanicus ;P Geeee... I wonder why they are resentful of the Empire and the Vatican) and they have larger cast members. Hell to take down RADU (who is epic phail), you needed Ion/sunlight/Petros/Tres AND Radu choosing to die. And that's just Radu. The immature, childish 18 years old Imperial baby. :/ If you feel is unfair, do apply for Ax/Inquisition or Empire. I WANT moar people on their side. I even complated apply for Petros but I already play THREE TB characters.

And since you've read the novels, could you confirm or deny what the other anon has said about Caterina in the RCO and then the thing about her 'ungrounding' Dietrich?

She starts a mental warfare with Dietrich when he's having paranoia issues against Cain (Dietrich's a person who suffered his own family attempting to MURDER him at 6, so yeah, paranoia ahoy) and his worth to him. So she turns him against Cain but he's still very faithful to the Orden ideals. He just wants Cain's dead and out the picture. Considering Dietrich can control the Arc II where the last fight was supposed to take place (Cain vs Abel), he has serious part to play on good guys's victory (however... we don't know 'cause author DIED on us before finishing the novels. Woe). However, I am playing Dietrich fresh out ROM III when he is still... loyal.

I MAY update this in the future but not now with ongoing plots with him involved. He's already having issues after curse days showed him how would have been if he had loving parents and acceptance of his genius. It's getting him. Rosiel's influence is too impacting him. Rosiel's so much like Cain that makes him have... loyalties issues.

Dietrich follows those he considers his superiors. This isn't out of love or loyalty but admiration and survival >_>

Something else you want to ask? :)

[(Anonymous)]

I have a lot I'd like to say, but I think I need time to organize my thoughts. My only first response though is "...I don't really want to read the novels now."

I thank you for replying, though I can't quite shake the feeling that the entire Trinity Blood cast seems to have been set up in a way. Not that it's necessarily "horriblewrong" but certainly leaves an odd taste in my mouth.

[(Anonymous)]

The earlier English novels at least, edited by a native English-speaker are a crime against grammar, syntax and Google as a means to search for the fecking obvious. I’ve seen better grammatical structure in outdated English textbooks in German high schools.

[sir-hellsing.livejournal.com]

Tokyopop. Herit told me the German ones are really dead on in translation.

I am buying the Spanish ones to make my collection grow. >_> I was going to buy them in English, but after hearing SO many negative reviews and given excerpts. Er. No thanks. People who can't translate ranks correctly isn't worth my money. >.> Asta's not a Duchess.

[(Anonymous)]

That editor has recently left the company so things may show some improvement soon.

[sir-hellsing.livejournal.com]

I heard. Did he translate RAM II? >_> Spain published ROM first then RAM, so we're getting them on the opposite order.

For what I glimpsed it looks more accurate. But... honestly "Rozen Kruez" makes me cringe.

[(Anonymous)]

She. I’m not aware of how much progress was made with RAM II but she was the editor not the translator. The translator’s job is to directly translate from the original language while the editor’s job is to render that into legible English. Somehow that latter part seemingly failed quite spectacularly.

[sir-hellsing.livejournal.com]

LOL. Translator also needs Japanese lessons or read at LEAST wikipedia to match the historical/literature references Sunao put.

You are obvious. ;)

[sir-hellsing.livejournal.com]

Novels are awesome. As you read several (even if Tokyopop butchers titles, ranks, voices -wtf at the loss of speech patters- and names as was informed, it should give you an insight: TB isn't the battle against good vs evil, it's MOSTLY political intrigue. And RCO WAS there before the others, City wise, they have built their power base. When good guys fight in their territory and sometimes neutral ground, they lose. Barcelona and Vienna should be proof of this). Honestly, it isn't hard either. Vatican (as much as I love the Cardinals like Antonio, Caterina and Francesco) and Empire... (no experience in the Outer and diplomacy other than Asta. LOL) uh... as a reader I think their systems suck so much. Germanicus Kingdom and Albion Kingdom after Esther = kick ass.

What would you suggest me to "improve" in your opinion?

[(Anonymous)]

I have so been schooled by my own canon ignorance. I have read two of the Trinity Blood novels, as released by Tokyopop and have done some research finding little pieces of the novel translated by others. Even if it is political intrigue I feel that now I will be disappointed. I was hoping for something that matched my impression from the manga (which was a far more twisted human domain of power and not power and the like). Though from what I've seen (and from what you've said, if the two match with the novels) it seems to be more about the machine and the pieces that work together mechanically/systematically/formulaically than anything.

I have a deep interest in complex humanism or void of, not the political machine. Thank you for your time, at least I won't waste any money buying the rest of the novels now!

(I hope you don't think this is an attack, but a realization of my personal preferences and perhaps why I prefer the manga to the novels. Or why I'm finding myself leaning towards those interpretations.)

[sir-hellsing.livejournal.com]

Even if it is political intrigue I feel that now I will be disappointed. I was hoping for something that matched my impression from the manga (which was a far more twisted human domain of power and not power and the like).

There is that too, but the plot is political. See the war is triggered, but the two strong nations are Albion (led by Esther) and Germanicus (controlled by the Orden). We have NO idea if Germanicus will be defeated in the end by Esther's people. Because the author died... before this happened or was lined up to happen?

Actually, it's quite fitting Germanicus and Albion survive. The Vatican destruction and the Empire blind backslash without their Empress. They are both big on co existence, ironically, Esther takes care of those Ghettos of Methuselah and Germanicus HAS Methuselah and Terran nobles sharing power (as can be seen in the power structure of the Orden). :)

(I hope you don't think this is an attack, but a realization of my personal preferences and perhaps why I prefer the manga to the novels. Or why I'm finding myself leaning towards those interpretations.)

Don't worry. I will suggest you to read the material too. There's big on redeemptions as well: Abel, from crazy mysogist Contra Mundi and war leader who hated humans and slaughtered them (Think Knives from Trigun only with true love who is his opposite: Lilith) to the Abel now.

If I was condescending, please forgive me. I didn't mean to. I tried to explain our choices and why we did this development.

[(Anonymous)]

Perhaps I should clarify my statement. For me, personally, RP should reflect a feeling from the series. And if it is possible for the feeling from the RP to be so definitely in the favor of a polar end then it becomes boring or wrong for me. In the case of this matching with canon then I must concede to disliking parts of/most of the canon itself.

Human struggle, or inhuman struggle, was what I saw in Trinity Blood the manga. Something worth looking at in everyone and an overcoming of single dimensions. Radu is weak, but he also had the strength to break Dietrich's control that one time. Dietrich is twisted, horrible, irredeemable but there's also something worth paying attention there no matter how ugly. Esther (and her nun-ness was up-played and her terrorist downplayed) even though she was the typical female in many ways had a shine to her.

If indeed the RP reflects the novels and (what I feel) all of these characteristics are lost then I have no interest in them.

[sir-hellsing.livejournal.com]

Perhaps I should clarify my statement. For me, personally, RP should reflect a feeling from the series. And if it is possible for the feeling from the RP to be so definitely in the favor of a polar end then it becomes boring or wrong for me. In the case of this matching with canon then I must concede to disliking parts of/most of the canon itself.

As I told before. If there were MORE Ax/Inquisition players, this would change. So far it's RCO centric because ALMOST all the Orden is there. If this displeases you.... er... either apply for someone of your liking.

Dietrich is twisted, horrible, irredeemable but there's also something worth paying attention there no matter how ugly.

Have I not be doing that? Because I'm trying to portray Dietrich with his Luciferean role: outwardly blindingly perfect, the Light Bringer. Inside, he's got Satan's heart who seeks evil. There's also Dietrich's tragic side. He's basically someone born with everything: looks, smarts, wealth, title, and life/socialization turned him into the most evil character ever in his canon. Radu and Esther muns should ask you those, but I'm curious. Because so far you have criticize them but not Dietrich himself. If there's something I should improve with Dietrich (cannot do anything for others), please, by all means, suggest it.

[(Anonymous)]

I've been meaning to discuss interaction more than characterization, since it's a more murky situation (I think). I may have failed in that attempt. And since I am guessing you play Dietrich from the novel my own taken on the situation is entirely falsified since I mainly know the manga. However, in the manga he comes across as tantalizing, enigmatic, but always there when you need him. Elegant. I'm not entirely sure how to say this without sounding rather stupid, but whenever I read your Dietrich I always feel like he's a fawning sycophant, not a sociopath. Perhaps you don't read him as a sociopath, which is fine. This is probably a clash of perspective.

It also feels like you say he's both just a victim of circumstance but also inherently evil, which is a contradiction. But again, mostly based on reading and I have no idea to your authorial intent.

I see how activity is working against you as well, since the impression that comes off of the RP is that Dietrich controls everything (which may be true? He is the puppetmaster behind many things) but that all the pieces are set around him. And I have missed the pulling his puppets back to him, I haven't been following nor am I a hugely active reader -- I have to say I was fairly spurned on to check out the cast from the secret's declaration of what seemed to be perfection and godly skills. So my surprise was rather great when I saw what seemed to be a huge clash between my own perspective and the secret writer's.

Different McAnon Strikes Again

[(Anonymous)]

Teal deer! But also I'm just going to drop a line here and say that...you're being pretty condescending here? I don't know whether or not the OP has read the novels, but -- they're not widely circulated here nor there, many TB fans don't read Japanese and there's just the fact that not a lot of members of the fandom have the same kind of access to the canon you do. So I'd be a little more delicate about the whole "you're wrong wrong wrong this and this happened and here's (my idea as to) why" thing if I were you -- I won't hold your oh so thorough knowledge of the canon against you, but I wouldn't hold people's lack thereof against them either.

Re: Different McAnon Strikes Again

[sir-hellsing.livejournal.com]

I don't know whether or not the OP has read the novels,

OP has admitted above to have knowledge out Anime and Manga mostly AND to have no pay attention to months of development? I only tried to summarize it, I didn't mean to make it sound condescending. Sorry!

BK Anon here

[(Anonymous)]

:/ This is how things go in multifandom RPs usually. If you don't have a deep idea of the canon, you're usually labeled as a nitpicker for picking on characters you don't even know the canon for.

Re: BK Anon here

[(Anonymous)]

That would pretty much invalidate criticism from anyone who doesn't play from/watch/read the canon, though.

Re: BK Anon here

[(Anonymous)]

But sometimes, isn't it normal to get a gut instinct that so and so character shouldn't be inviting everyone to his/her bed, for example?

Well, that's a very loose example, but not knowing the canon instantly means you really have no say? What if 95% of the RP doesn't know the canon?

Different McAnon

[(Anonymous)]

That's pretty much exactly the point I was trying to make! It's a little unfair to be called out as a "nitpicker" or whatever if you're playing with someone from a canon you don't know much about (or have viewed in a different media, as tends to be the case with a series like Trinity Blood) and something just doesn't seem on, right?

Which brings me back to my original point; the OP thought the cast of that RP were OOC based on their perceptions of a canon they're at least somewhat familiar with. And I don't think that that person's concerns are any less valid for not having access to as much canon as those players have.

BK Anon

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed! That actually got me thinking, and this is not connected to the previous topic at all, if people were automatically called "nitpickers" for not having direct access to the canon etc., then that might giving a free pass to the characters from very obscure fandoms. Not saying that players of characters from obscure fandoms are automatically people who purposely pick obscure characters to avoid negative comments, of course.

RP is serious business...

Re: BK Anon

[(Anonymous)]

Heh, I totally see where you're coming from! I can see where someone would be a little more uneasy about questioning the play of someone from a way obscure canon, or a canon that isn't available to them -- if a player was inexperienced or just plain :( then it'd be way easy to lie about what kind of character they're really playing.

Old McAnon had a Farm...

[ruxi.livejournal.com]

...slight disagreement based on one particular issue: you can accuse character inconsistency, a lack of character voice or general self-contradiction without knowing the canon. OOCdom, though? Not really, I'd think.

Everyone can pick up on, say, if you have your char support an ideal today, its opposite tomorrow, and the convenient third alternative next week -- all with the same kind of sincere enthusiasm (so you don't even allow that they're hypocritical) This is when anyone with eyes to read can go, "LOL THAT IS INCONSISTENT."

Same, if you're going on the idea that there is no practical character development, you can throw a nice label of, "STAGNATION FTW."

But in the absence of knowledge of the exact canon of characters' provenance? I'd - personally - say that you can't claim OOCdom. There are a lot of other accusations you can bring forward based on actual play development, rather than canon interpretation... but yeah, I wouldn't, myself, say you can claim OOCdom.

Granted, I come from a background of some acquaintance with the players this secret concerned, so I'm not sure whether you'll want to take my argument into account. Nonetheless, putting it forward.

[sir-hellsing.livejournal.com]

I was going to say: "How do you know how they characters are supposed to be or act unless you know the characters? o.O" But I prefer to not say it in case it was "condescending."

There are plenty criticism to give and doesn't involve characterization at all (my English, being not native, isn't the best and I'm aware and I try to improve. Sure there's LOTS of grammar issues). Your basis is my own, Ruxi.

McAnon

[(Anonymous)]

Case and point re: being canon blind and still being able to spot inconsistency and stagnation versus OOCness! Technicality, but I agree, even beyond where this secret is concerned. In which case I'd say it's fortunate that the OP has a degree of canon familiarity.